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[Music]
okay good afternoon everybody Welcome to
the work session of Las crus city
council today is Monday December 14th
2020 it's approximately 1M if you please
join me in the pledge of the Allegiance
please pledge of allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America and to
the Republic for which it stands one
nation under God indivisible with
liberty and justice for
all okay now we're going to go to the P
of the week which I believe Jennifer
Martinez from our Communications office
will introduce that is right thank you
mayor good afternoon everyone good
afternoon Council I am Jennifer Martinez
with the city's Communications
office and let me first introduce you to
Lana Lana first arrived at the shelter
in the summer of 201 19 and she was
adopted but brought back to the shelter
for unforeseen circumstances the
following month she was diagnosed with
heart worms and we know treatment can be
a little bit difficult so people are
weary to adopt she does require a little
bit more attention because of it but she
does like long walks she loves the
cuddle and she could make someone very
very happy and then we have another
little kitten who also has some concerns
this is Abigail who's affectionately
known as scabigail because of her skin
conditions
um she also is though known for being a
purring machine she loves to socialize
with cats and dogs but she does need a
home where she can keep her skin clear
and healthy and be provided a special
food and in return you will get all the
love that she has and I did put a second
photo in here of her because she is
entirely cute right
there if you're looking to adopt you can
go to ascmv
toorgle number and call to make an
appointment the number is
38218 and as well with many previous
months the offside adoption events have
been canceled until further notice we're
around Christmas time so if you have
something extra to give the Animal
Service Center is in need of some
donation so if you can look around the
home and you might have some things
laying around kennels or crates dog
sweaters blankets collars leashes and
towels you can drop them off during
normal hours of operation and if they
are closed you can leave them at the
door there is an upcoming Zoom meeting
that's a open forum for the As MV it'll
be on Friday January 8th of 2021 we are
so close to the new year it will take
place from 1: to 2 p.m. if you have
questions go ahead and email them in
advance to the director Clint ther
that's C ther lost- press.org and any
questions you have will be brought up at
that meeting and again we always bring
about some sort of coid information and
today it's that you and Council mayor
have assisted some businesses for the
entirety of next year by reducing the
business registration fee Communications
off office assisted economic development
in alerting the public and the business
community that you our city council uh
adopted the resolution to establish that
reduced fee from January 1st to December
31st of next year um helping to offset
the negative impacts of Co and we thank
you very much for that and I thank you
much for your time have a great
afternoon mayor thank you okay well
thank you and good luck to the your the
pets of the week hopefully they get
adopted uh they look like they both
could use some good homes okay so now
we're going to go to the jobs of the
week and I believe Cindy quinland will
are you going to be um announcing those
yes sir okay good afternoon everyone I'm
Cindy quillin I'm the assistant One-Stop
operator for New Mexico workforce
connections so this week's jobs of the
weeks we have a part-time Community
educator through our city of Los Cruses
this position will be closing on
Christmas Eve which is December 24th
2020 we also have a material handlers
position which is with manufacturing and
this um position they have 50 positions
the employer is balance Staffing uh this
position uh also closes it won't close
until January of uh January 6 of 2021
already so our next uh position that we
have open is a paramedic through a
amical American Medical Response and
they have a
75 um 100 sign on bonus this position uh
closes on March the 7th of
2021 uh we also have an IT Tech Support
uh through the physical science
laboratory which is at NMSU and this
position closes on January 6th of
2021 and we have three positions that
are available through Mountain Regional
Medical Center for certified nursing
assistant these positions close on
December 18th of 20 2020 of this year so
for a full list of all the um jobs that
we have available internships and
volunteer opportunities if you could
please visit us at
https uh www. employed newmexico.com and
at
www.governmentjobs.com
backcare
Cruis and for our New Mexico workforce
connections at our office our contact
information is 575 524 6250 our location
is at 226 South ala Las chuses New
Mexico
88005 you can also visit us on our web
page at https
Lane Sullivan and Melissa picket will be
our presenters and it's good to see
mayor Pro and Meritus Sharon Thomas
joining us so it's good to see you and I
also see Dr uh oh wow state senator
elect Carrie Hampton good to see you and
um I saw Dr Ericson from New Mexico
State University joining us so that's
great so with that we'll turn it over
does staff have a initial presentation
um
Barbara or Eric or we're going to go
right through right to
Elaine mayor this is Barbara delion the
staff does not has a have a presentation
I believe we're going right to the
external pres presentation sounds
good okay Lane
Sullivan hello everyone um thank you
mayor members of the council I'm Melissa
pcket and I'm the Outreach coordinator
for the alliance for Local Economic Pros
erity uh we do have one of our members
Dan Mayfield who is waiting I believe to
be led into the meeting if somebody
might be willing to do that we have a
bit of a change up in who will be
presenting today and um so if it's if
it's good for everyone we'll just Dive
Right In uh again I want to thank
everybody for allowing us to be with you
today thank you so much for your time
the as I said I'm the Outreach
coordinator for the alliance for Local
Economic Prosperity which is the think
tank for the public bank for New Mexico
we need a state public Bank to keep our
Revenue safe local and working in local
communities like Las crusis the alliance
for local econ economic Prosperity is
working to bring a public Bank to New
Mexico in a proposal called the public
Banking Act which will come before the
state legislature in 2021 Los crusa
Senator Jeff steinborn is our primary
sponsor we believe a public bank will
provide a place for New Mexico to
deposit its revenues instead of sending
those revenues to out ofate Banks where
there's no benefit for New Mexicans
revenues in a New Mexico public Bank can
be used for projects here in Los Cruses
those funds can help Los crusis and Don
Ana County fund large public Improvement
projects so that you do not have to use
long-term bonds for those projects they
can also be used to help l businesses
small entrepreneurs farmers and ranchers
affordable housing
projects recovery from natural disasters
and renewable energy projects I would
like to turn over um now to my colleague
Angela merkert who is the executive
director of The Alliance for Local
Economic Prosperity
Angela thank you Melissa and honorable
mayor and City councilors we appreciate
the opport opportunity to spend this
time with you
today so why a state public Bank excuse
me Angela I'm sorry for interrupting can
you state your name please I know you
just got it announced but I just need
you to state your name yes um Angela
merard and is there an organization did
you represent yes I'm executive director
of The Alliance for Local Economic
Prosperity okay thank
you so for increased Effectiveness if
efficiency and focus in the state in the
stewardship of New Mexico Revenue we
need a state public Bank to keep our
Revenue safe local and working we're a
rich state but we have a high rate of
poverty and we're often looked upon as
being a poor State especially now in
this pandemic time now is the time to
increase the state's Financial capacity
to support more of our current needs and
a public bank is instrument that will
make that
possible how can it help New
Mexico well in New Mexico state revenue
and fees are deposited in
large Global Banks they use our deposits
as leverage to make loans and
investments in companies of their
choosing to maximize profits for their
stockholders that doesn't help our local
economy if New Mexico had a state public
bank for our revenues our taxes and our
fees that bank could use our deposits as
leverage to make loans for the problems
of our communities including
infrastructure small
businesses Health uh Clinic enhancements
and
more the public bank's Mission would be
to invest in a way that both enhances
the vitality and viability of New
Mexico's communities and economic
sectors including increasing the
potential of locally owned Banks and
credit unions in
cdfis and it advances the state's public
and private economic and Community
well-being by investing to increase the
human and Social Capital build its
infrastructure and regenerate its
natural
assets a state bank would develop
Community wealth not only individual
wealth as a nonprofit a state-owned
entity loans can be made at a discount
to other state agencies municipalities
and tribes as well as increase the
lending capacity of Our Community Banks
and Credit Unions for example a simple
$50 million in capital and matching
deposits could generate as much as $500
million of funds to leverage the
projects that we
need I'd like to introduce now uh
someone and well known to you Senator
elect Carrie ham
Hamlin thank you
Angela uh thank you honorable mayor and
Council my name is Carrie Hamlin I'm the
CEO and president of the Los Cruis green
Chamber of Commerce and I do have to say
that um as much as I'm enjoying wearing
sweatpants and maybe dressing from the
shoulders up um I do miss seeing all of
you in person and cannot wait for the
day that we can do that um on that note
um thank you for allowing me the
opportunity to speak with you about
public Banks today um I do have to leave
the meeting uh right after I finish
speaking is I have required training as
a newly elected Senator um and it starts
today and then goes full-blown tomorrow
and Wednesday so I will be straight to
the point with you um a public Bank
provides an opportunity for New Mexico
to grow and for L crues to benefit
now although we have several agencies
working together the city of Las crusis
including in the economic development
department to help our economy and our
small businesses during this challenging
time a public bank would help businesses
when we come out of the pandemic on the
other side having a public bank is a
great way for the state to support small
businesses through lending supporting of
local entrepreneurs and best of all and
you know I talk about this all the time
keeping our money in our state rather
than it going elsewhere there is a
precedent for this and it's a great
model to follow and it's the Bank of
North Dakota we would not be Reinventing
the wheel the Bank of North Dakota or
the BND has been around for a hundred
years and serves as a great example of
helping various Industries within the
state while keeping that money and its
earnings from being dependent on Wall
Street now according to the website
massu bank.org a public Bank allows
municipality to benefit from State
lending programs offer below market rate
loans and Leverage other capital for
specific public purposes such as
affordable housing neighborhood
development infrastructure Small
Business Development education and job
creation we will need all of this when
we can begin operating as close to
normal as possible once we get a handle
on the pandemic and furthermore the
website reports that the public Bank of
North Dakota earned $94 Million last
year in profits for North Dakota's
670,000
residents B andd deposits roughly half
of its profits into the state General
budget and uses the other half to
increase its capitalization in order to
make more loans so you may agree that we
need to diversify our economy and when
we need to diversify our revenue streams
this is one way we can do that and
locally the bank can do non-traditional
loans in partnership with local banks
and Credit Unions that help the smallest
the newest or the most fragile in our
community and I know that all of you in
your respective capacities get what it
means to serve community and you've done
so excellently in all the different
areas that you represent but the Bank of
North Dakota also already does this they
provide loans for agricultural producers
and buyers for entrepreneurs for solar
preneurs and many others and the bank
can also help fund the economic
development programs that our small
businesses are benefiting from in Los
Cruses on the border and across the
state as the CEO of the green chamber I
also see the connection a public bank
has to helping us serve the climate
crisis or solve the CL climate crisis
say that five times really fast this has
the potential to bring substantial
change to New Mexico's push to a Greener
economy meeting our own electric
generation timeline and funding clean
energy projects for the state mayor miag
gashima I remember at one point you said
that you wanted Los cruus to be the
solar capital of the state this is one
of those opportunities we can do that we
have great opportunities sitting right
here in front of us by supporting a
public Bank it will help by offering
lower Financial costs for local
residents help with cares act monies and
PPP loans and more all without raising
taxes I encourage you to support a
public Bank of New Mexico and I thank
you for allowing me time to speak with
you today and I love seeing all your
faces even if it's a
[Music]
photo yeah I don't know why they don't
turn their their live picture on but
that's okay they're all multitasking you
know it you know everybody's
multitasking yeah okay well great well
Senator thank you for that we appreciate
your support on that and your
comments thank you so much and and just
learn to say yes when you get
elected I told that I've been told that
just
kidding all right well good luck and and
be careful thank you so much I
appreciate all of you thank you
all okay thank
you oh well thank you Carrie my name is
Dan Mayfield and my video is off right
now it looks like but I am the vice
president for government Affairs at the
credit union Association and I want to
thank you honorable mayor city council
and community members for allowing us to
speak today um uh I came to this the
credit union side of things and we
realized that a public Bank like a
public Bank it takes deposits and then
invests them in loans but instead of
making profits its motive a public bank
would help cities like Los cruus in New
Mexico's small businesses with loans and
lots of other programs to help uh I
would make a few points about the
benefits of a public Bank uh the state
of New Mexico first of all will not run
the public Bank the public bank would be
governed by a qualified citizens board
of directors managed by professional
bankers and the public Bank of course
would be regulated just like any other
public just like any other Charter Bank
would it would follow the same exact
kind of regulations state and federal
that any Community Bank or credit union
in your community already follows and
the public bank would work in
partnership with financial institutions
like credit unions and Community Banks
and even your local cdfis to help reduce
their costs and increase and attract new
members uh the loans would be originated
by by those local banks or credit unions
giving them new
customers and loab be uh with this
partnership model credit unions and
Community Banks will increase their
lending capacity uh loan programs will
be designated to address public benefit
targets that the banks and legislature
identify such as Jobs public Improvement
energy green energy uh projects on the
border whatever the board of directors
and the legislature thinks and the
public bank will act as a partner with
local lenders so it shares the risk on
those loans as defined in that Loan
program and it's a great way for
Community Banks and Credit Unions to
really serve their their communities on
the ground using their local
intelligence and I want to ask mayor
protm ameritus Sharon Thomas who is on
the line with us she has a she has
something to say as well Sharon if
you'll join
us thank you this is Sharon Thomas for
the record um and I also do not have
video on
yet oh we can hear you okay good
afternoon mayor and counselors um as I
said this is oh start my video just a
minute oh there you go okay so good
afternoons mayor and counselors this is
Sharon Thomas for the record I've been
working with the on the public Bank
project with Alliance for Local Economic
prosperity for a couple of years now and
the group has done important Research
into public lands you know I always want
everything to be researched so I'm
impressed by the amount of research they
done and the amount of knowledge they
have and the number of Bankers that are
involved in the work and they also have
been out across the state uh getting
support from many different
entities um like carry I think our state
and our community can benefit from
having a New Mexico public Bank I'm
currently on the Los Cruses economic
recovery board and also on two local
Workforce Development boards and you
know I've seen a lot of good work done
recently by those two groups and it's
very encouraging but we still need to do
more to support our local economy and
small businesses as well as the
Workforce Development programs in our
program which you well know mayor kin
since you're on Workforce board as well
a New Mexico State Bank in partnership
with local banks and Credit Unions could
support small businesses and local
entrepreneurs through local lending
programs for example the arrowhead
Center at NMSU there are many
entrepreneurs there who with con a
little increased funding could take
their businesses much further and that's
something a State Bank could support and
then there are all the businesses on the
border which is one of the biggest
economic generators in the state with a
little extra push those businesses could
grow exponentially and provide many more
jobs for our region the Bank of North
Dakota offers a wellestablished model it
provides loans for agricultural
producers and buyers for entrepreneurs
and for many other local projects across
the state of North Dakota as Carrie
Hamlin pointed out a New Mexico public
Bank could help fund the economic
development and Workforce programs that
we desperately need here in Las crusis
on the border and across the state as a
former city councelor and mayor proam I
also know that we need to bring
resources to our dying urban center to
begin with the alao and salana quarters
and the surrounding neighborhoods a
public bank has the potential to bring
substantial change to Las cuses by
supporting Redevelopment in those areas
as well as providing support for several
other proposed project in our city I'm
asking that you support this
initiative thank you thank
you and finally the alliance for Local
Economic Prosperity requests that the
Los crusa city council takes up a
resolution to support the public Banking
Act that is sponsored by Senator Jeff
steinborn and request that copies of
that resolution are sent to the governor
of the Senate brm and the speaker of the
house and we really appreciate your time
today and your consideration of the
public Banking Act in New Mexico thank
you very much and we stand for questions
yeah thank you Dan what what I believe
was I think Dr Erikson was going to talk
also and then um we we'll open it up for
questions if that's okay that's right I
had some uh comments if I uh could get
my video I'd appreciate
it thank you um so as many of you know
I'm Chris Erikson I'm a professor at
enim youu I've been there for about 35
years i' been there long enough I get to
round off to 35 years at this point um
uh and uh I want to do say though that
I'm not speaking as a representative in
missu per se
these are my own personal comments uh
and thoughts as far as I know en missu
has no position on public banking uh the
reason why I asked uh to be able to be
included on that and can you see myh
screen uh is that showing yes sir we can
see it we can see New Mexico state's
logo I'm just kidding I'm just giving
you hard so uh the uh the the reason why
I asked to speak here and I want to
thank my uh soon to be uh city counselor
who arranged this for me uh for doing
that uh is because uh a few years ago
seven years ago in fact I was asked to
be a consultant to the city of Santa Fe
where I uh worked on a report on having
a public bank for the City of Santa Fe
and I want to share some of the
conclusions that came out that now that
report was I would say lukewarm on uh
public banking uh not not dead set
against it but also not full Square
behind it and the reason for that of
course is that a public Bank is U as
envisioned by its its proponents at
least on the material that I've read
that they've made public and that I've
seen in other places is uh as a
Development Bank intend to promote
economic development in New Mexico
development banks are publicly funded
Banks aimed at promoting public interest
and there are many many examples of
which IMF World Bank savings and loans
in fact are public Banks they were
established for a public Mission which
was to promote home ownership there are
many many examples and a Development
Bank Can Be an Effective vehicle for
economic uh if profit projects don't
have access to
funds um socially desirable profit uh
projects are un unprofitable so require
subsidies to be undertaken or the
Development Bank is more efficient to or
in administering uh uh than alternative
arrangements and I'd argue that it's
hard pressed to say that a public bank
would achieve any of those goals in
current environment not that they can't
but it's care we need to be careful and
think through whether they will do that
so for example here's a display that
shows uh the uh reserves held by banks
at the Federal Reserve right now these
are reserves that are available to lend
uh right now if you notice it's U uh
over uh currently it's over $3 trillion
in excess reserves are available that
can be lent there is plenty of capital
out there for borrowing if you are if
you have a worthwhile project that is
profitable you can borrow from a bank if
that's what you want to want to do the
problem is not um that there's a
shortage of funding the problem is that
there's a shortage of profitable um uh
projects to to to fund and um uh so uh
there also will point out our many other
programs in New Mexico and I try to
figure out a way to display this that
would be get the point across it's it's
not any particular project is par uh uh
program is particularly Better or Worse
another one but what this does is it
shows you that there are many programs
in New Mexico that are aimed to provide
funding to small businesses that are
having uh uh that that that need funding
are able to access that fund from um
traditional
Banks uh and this these are these these
exist
currently um so there's plenty of
funding uh for banks the shortage is of
available the shortage is of available
profitable lending opportunities not the
availability of funds the problem is
that Banks can't find customers that
they want to lend to and are willing to
borrow and um um uh so to the extent
that a public Bank finances a profitable
loan that is one less loan that's
available to traditional lending
facilities like a large Bank people
several people mentioned that um um
they're concerned about large Banks
diverting funds from New Mexico to
projects in other states or even in
other countries and um and then of
course that does happen um but if if you
if a public Bank lends to a uh a project
that is profitable that's one less
project available for uh Traditional
Bank to lend to and they will simply
take that funds and go to another state
and lend somewhere else the net change
in total lending will be close to zero
maybe not exactly zero but close to zero
um the net change in lending well let me
go on here alternatively public Banks
could Finance Loans the socially
desirable but not traditionally uh
profitable loans and of course if you
think back uh uh uh to housing uh
Savings and Loans when they are
initially established receives special
tax benefits that made lending to um uh
in the mortgage Market profitable and
that's the reason why Savings and Loans
went into the mortgage Market was
because they were receiving that tax
subsidy now of course this is
historically it's not so much true now
and and it's very common that you set up
uh uh Banks to make subsidized
loans the problem is that means the
taxpayers have to pay for it and I'm not
saying that that's not a good thing to
do it maybe is a good thing to do but we
have to keep our eyes open that as a as
a government Institution s if we're
lending to un if we're making
unprofitable loans we're not receiving a
return on investment that we might get
elsewhere and um uh a third potential
advantage of Polly bank is it might
lower investment cost to New Mexico
government units but I'll point out and
I'm sure the mayor and other City
councilors are aware that the local
government investment pool which is run
by the state Treasures Office is
available for local um uh for local
government units to utilize and that's a
very lowcost source of of U or very
lowcost way to uh invest um and so um uh
just in conclusion then it's not that I
oppose a public bank it's not that I
think it's a bad idea per se is that I
don't see the hole that it's filling and
it does represent a um it does represent
uh a risk in the sense that it's
investing in a relatively undiversified
portfolio in the sense that it's Landing
only in New Mexico um and especially
compared to the state Treasures Office
uh funds uh which is a a very secure
triaa investment it could expose a local
governments to risk but if it's done
right it could be helpful I'm just
saying it it's not the Panacea that
people are are making it out to be so
with that I'm done with my presentation
I'll turn the screen back over to um
let's see I will stop sharing so Dr Dr
ericon thank you for that will you be
available in case if a council member or
somebody has a question to ask of you
absolutely okay fantastic okay so let's
go ahead and go back to either Angela or
Dan and then we thank you thank you Mr
Mayor appreciate it and Dr Ericson thank
you for doing the background research on
some of this we've been talking about a
lot of these is excuse me Dan I
apologize for interrupting can you state
your name again and this all the
speakers you don't have to say who
you're from just just your name again we
we'll have because we have that down
what organization you represent Dan
Mayfield I'm the vice president for
government Affairs for the credit union
Association here in New Mexico and I
want to thank you very much Dr Ericson
for doing some research on this we've
been talking about a lot of these issues
and you're you are right the Federal
Reserve does have a lot of money to lend
right now but we talk to local small
businesses all the time who realize they
cannot get that money local banks for
one reason or another a lot of it is
regulatory cannot meet the needs of
their local communities and it just
happens all across the nation uh and
when we talk about the Federal Reserve
uh those are not the kind of guaranteed
loans that the public Bank we think
would be able to provide so those
businesses now that could that need a
100,000 but the bank will lend them
50,000 a public bank would help cover
that difference between those loans and
make loans today they're impossible
because of the way Banks ratios have to
work uh it would make those loans
possible tomorrow but more importantly
this keeps our money here in New Mexico
and working for New Mexicans today our
money goes into a global bank and then
it gets invested by a global bank and we
never see it again a public Bank keeps
that money here in New Mexico working
for New Mexico and of course there are a
million of those program Dr Ericson you
pointed out we've been talking with
Representatives a lot of those the nmfa
all of the cdfis you pointed out those
are groups and Community organizations
that are doing incredible work here on
the ground imagine what they could do if
they had even more money to help those
groups on the ground today they are uh
you know they're limited by the capital
and their capacity right and if the
public Bank were able to provide more
capital for them especially lowcost
Capital it would be huge for a lot of us
and of course by saying that you also
forget about all the other programs that
the public Bank can do this is not just
a small business lending program that
we're talking about doing the Bank of
North Dakota that krie hlin was
mentioning uh Senator Hamlin now I guess
uh they do some incredible lending for
things that would help for example the
businesses on the border uh they they
lend people money out of state to buy
products from instate so imagine what
could happen happen if an out ofate
buyer was lent money to buy New Mexico's
green chili that would be huge and we
could provide exports for more of green
chili uh there are loan programs that
are designed specifically for
headquarters for new companies to move
to an area and we were talking with
Jerry Peko who runs the Border Authority
the other day and Jerry was very excited
about some of those projects because if
he had just a little bit more Capital to
entice a headquarters to move to his
area he would do it in a heartbeat and
those are the kinds of programs we're
talking about so we don't want to limit
it we don't want people to think that a
public bank is limited to only doing
small business lending or only doing
that kind of lending that you see on
Main Street right it's a banker's bank
and this is not a uh it's not something
we talk about daily but in the credit
union world we have we have a company
called Catalyst it's a credit union for
credit unions in the bankers world it's
bti which is out of Texas they serve
14,000
Banks why are we why are our banks going
to Texas to get their Capital when they
could go to Santa Fe to get their
capital and use our own local state
money right
and so when we talk about this it
doesn't steal those loans from other
local from local banks in the slightest
in fact it's designed as a banker's Bank
to help them and this is how I came to
this from the credit union side of
things is we realized that with access
to more Capital we could help more of
our members get more capital on the
ground especially those small business
lending members that we have the a
lending members that we have on the on
the large side and by having more access
to Capital and more access to
inexpensive Capital it really helps us
serve our members to together serve our
members better and it would help those
local Community Banks serve their
customers better it does not compete
with them there are no there's not an
ATM on the corner there is not a branch
anywhere this is simply a place for a
Bank to go to for more money for its
customers already and I've never heard a
bank say that they have lent all the
money in the world that there is to lend
so a community a State Bank could help
all those Community Bankers dive in and
get more money to all of their folks
since I was directly addressed uh do I
respond is that okay yes I just I just
need you to state your name every time
you're talk Chris Ericson um the re and
and again I'm responding because I was
directly addressed uh and uh uh uh F
first of all you mentioned it lowcost
loans and if you have subsidies if
you're providing subsidies thereby
lowcost loans that would be a uh even if
it's not tax subsidies it's if it's
leaving interest on the table which is a
form of subsidy leaving you know
accepting a lower interest rate than you
would get
otherwise um of course that is something
that would make it more accessible to
businesses there would be businesses
that would have the availability of fund
to to fund projects that they would not
otherwise be profitable without lower
interest rates a second Factor you
mentioned and and I'm not saying that's
not something you don't want to do it
may very well be something you want to
do the second is the you mentioned uh uh
attracting um headquarters to the
community again there's lots of reasons
why you want to attract headquarters and
I agree if you want to subsidize loans
to attract headquarters to the area that
would be a reason for establishing this
kind of a bank I'm not saying it
wouldn't be um what I am saying is we
have to have our eyes open and those
kind of subsidies cost
money uh and um uh and and do do we want
to do that uh as a as a state it's a
it's not a it's not a no-brainer I don't
think I think it's something needs to be
thought through carefully and uh the
final thing I want to mention just very
quickly is that you mentioned that Banks
uh that National Banks take money out of
the state and never put it back in I
don't know about you guys but my
mortgage is through uh is through US
Bank my mortgage on my house is through
US Bank and that's a very large National
Bank and I think there are many people
who get loans through um these National
Banks these these large National Banks
and um I
again I I think
it's
counterproductive to say that we're
trying to isolate things for our state
and we don't want to trade with other
states and we don't want to have our
money go elsewhere but we do want their
money to come here and then one final
thing I want to say is if you look at
the bank of of South Dakota if you look
at that bank you will notice that um its
lending is very similar to traditional
Banks lending it is a large successful
Bank it has been very successful over a
hundred years but it's very tra it's
very very similar to to uh uh the kind
of lending that a normal that that a
typical bank would make so anyhow thank
thank you for the time mayor so let me
do this let me just ask you both of you
gentlemen some questions and then maybe
the council can chime in but I think
they may be interested in some of the
things I may ask you so let me just ask
you this since Dr erison I think you
said you worked on Santa Fe do you know
which actual Banks New Mexico banks that
um that the state treasurer keeps the
money in
I don't know the actual Banks of State
treasur keep some money I know here in
doniana County here that we bank with uh
that the county banks with some local
with the local
banks um on uh uh and and as you know
those local banks when you Bank of a
local bank you required to keep they're
required to keep counter funds uh to
make sure the deposit is safe uh uh and
I don't know if the um if the uh public
bank would require to do that or not it
would depend on how the law was written
um but well no I was just trying to get
at which which you know because there's
not that many State Banks I think
there's Bank 34 Citizens Bank First
American Bank Pioneer Bank uh Western
Commerce Bank there's just a handful and
so I'm thinking that a lot of these and
now the other question I have for you Mr
Mayfield is were you um expecting the
state treasure to remove all their
Investments or just the cash that they
that they keep on hand because I know
they usually keep cash on hand with with
banks that are there in Santa Fe and so
you're you're you're thinking they were
just we're just talking about the cash
only is that what you're thinking
essentially yes Mr Mayor again Dan
Mayfield and uh first things first on
the local banks versus Municipal
deposits issue uh we are not
recommending that the that
municipalities put their deposits into
the state bank first of all I know that
that's been some confusion through the
past and uh in other in other States
they do have Municipal banks for cities
uh basically no city in New Mexico is
large enough to support a public bank
but the state would be um and then
essentially right now today uh the $7
billion in the state fund is put through
Wells Fargo and other large Global Banks
and they invest the money however they
see fit and we want to take $50 million
of those deposits and simply put them
aside and put them in the public Bank
and it's just deposits that already
exist it's taxpayer money that already
exists that is already paid and then
that that money itself makes more money
and turns itself around just like a bank
does anyway and it makes money off of
loans right sure okay so you had you had
an amount that's really what I was
getting at I didn't that amount milon
sorry to I get excited about this stuff
Mr Mayor I'm sorry 50 million from the
state uh basically it just the money
that would be going into a global bank
would be pulled out put into the state
bank and then a $50 million
capitalization from the sance tax
Permanent Fund so I want to use a couple
examples that I believe that the
Community Bank I mean this the state
bank and I say community is because I
think that in my discussion with uh Miss
Sullivan a while back I I after
listening to them and I've talked with
them at length twice and so I you know I
finally understood more because like you
said I mean initially it looks like
we're trying to board a bank that's
going to be competing against our local
banks here like citizens and first and
they're not um and so earlier uh Dr
Ericson said that that bank in North
Dakota I think uh does take some
traditional loans so you're okay if our
language says we do not support this uh
the State Bank taking uh local loans I
mean it's just meant to be more of a
partnership and let me explain this to
my colleagues if if they weren't aware
of this but so some banks let's take a
small bank here in town uh let's say
you're trying to do a $2 million
apartment complex and maybe their
lending limit is 1.5 million so but but
you're a good customer of theirs and so
they'll partner with another local bank
and what you're saying basically is this
Community Bank can now come in to come
up with that other half a million and
they're kind of probably land it at a
little bit cheaper rate because their
their setup their business model is such
that they're not there to try to make so
much profit it's more of a nonprofit
just try to keep the Investments here
that's number one you agree with that
yes I do Dr Arison you agree with that
well uh
certainly the answer is yes although I
will mention that if they're lending a
lower rate that that's equivalent of a
taxpayer subsidy because you're earing
less return on your on your deposits
okay okay no I got you and then the
other thing is sometimes new businesses
new startups it's very difficult for
this even difficult sometimes to get
insurance your first year in business
they want to see some track record and
so I'm understanding that the community
that that the state bank would be really
more uh likely to land than say to a new
bank a new um wherever whether it's
Wells Fargo or or you know some other
local bank is that your understanding uh
is that my understanding Mr Mayfield and
Dr
Arison
um I I'm so I think the details of
what's being proposed are are different
in different places uh and so I can't
say exactly what the proposal is in the
state that's in the proposed legislation
I haven't actually seen the proposed
legislation but that seems reasonable I
have no reason to think that wouldn't be
but again and I I I I hate to be the
drum taking on additional risk of
lending To Us by that addition taking on
that risk but not accepting expecting a
higher return that's equivalent of a
subsidy to business again I'm not saying
you shouldn't do it I'm just saying do
it your eyes open well okay let me let
me ask you a question on that Dr Aron
when you say so so let's say you do you
get a loan with Wells Fargo and they and
they offer 6% and then you get a loan
with this state bank and they offer
5%
um but to to the bank they have their
certain their certain amount that
they're going to that they're going to
need to continue operation the only
difference in the interest rate is is
one's more of a for-profit and the other
one really isn't a for-profit it's more
of a nonprofit that's why you know and I
and I'll say this and even though Dan is
here that's why usually not always
Credit Unions have a little bit higher
interest rate that they can pay and a
little bit lower interest rate when it
comes to doing loans than a traditional
bank usually uh and so that I I I see
that really this State Bank almost being
like a huge huge Credit Union for the
whole state sort of because they're just
they only focus on certain certain
areas I'm sorry Mr Mayor this is Angela
may I jump in here just for a second I'm
sure go ahead Angel um thank you um
Angela merard I um I want to name
something that I hear in the discussion
related to the concept of subsidy um if
we're truly creating investing in our
communities and creating more Community
wealth then yes there's still an
obligation to um maximize earnings for
the citizens of the state at the same
time it's not the same as maximizing
individual shareholder wealth in um in
the private commercial Banks and so I
think there I just want to raise the um
investment opportunity in our
communities and what do those additional
businesses and the additional well-being
of the communities mean for increased
number of jobs and increased quality of
life through the various infrastructure
projects and also U thriving businesses
so there's there is a return on
investment that isn't always going to be
coming up in the earnings of the bank
it's going to in um it's going to mean
additional GRT that's paid in and and
other uh Revenue Poss possibilities and
also non-monetary gains so I I just want
to name that here in the conversation it
yes ma'am well thank
you I say that I I agree with that 100%
the question is is a public bank if we
go into this of our eyes open and
recognize that we're that we're ACH
seeking other goals other than
maximizing Return of the taxpayer on
every dollar invested like we would if
we were doing for private bank I'm gain
for that what I'm saying is it's
important to recognize that this is that
we are doing that a public bank is
serving purposes other
than just making a profit and as the
taxpayers should be aware of that and
we're not giving a hidden subsidy by
calling it a public Bank rather than
some other kind of program that would be
explicitly funded through um action by
the city council or action by the
legislature that's all I'm saying let
let me clarify what my my what I was
going to ask you Dr Arison and and and
Mr Mayfield and now go to councelor
stord so getting back to the example of
say Wells Fargo doing a 6% loan and and
this Bank uh State Bank doing a 5% loan
my question is that there's the cost of
funds that both will incur both Wells
Fargo and the and the State Bank the
benefit is going to go to the lent to
the the person who receiving the loan
and I guess my question is that
additional 1% that the bank that Wells
Fargo is charging ing it doesn't come
back to the state of New Mexico it goes
to various other people whether it's the
investors or the shareholders because
that's a that's a corporate you know
large bank that's where I I don't seem
to get and then the second thing is I
would think that this state bank would
be regulated just like any other bank so
they're they're required to have so many
certain financial ratios so that if it
gets below a certain level then the
state can say hey you know what we're
going to to do something here because
you're you're operating in it way so I
think those are the safe cards I think
that that the public has as well so
anyways we'll get back to that I I I
finally have one council member has a
question so um councelor
sword okay thank you Mr
Mayor um unless some of the other pres
and any other presenters has something
more to say I I'll wait till you're done
um I I appreciate your discussion today
quite a bit good points have being
brought out uh by uh everyone mayor and
so forth um
so I just wanted to say that uh um I got
involved in this couple years ago um and
um when it was brought up I
thought
um that uh it was quite familiar with me
I lived right next nor to North Dakota
for 23 years and all my news came from
North Dakota and oftentimes they talk
about their State Bank and I don't
recall anything negative about the State
Bank um and so I I thought it was a good
idea when I learned how it works so
um I uh if you recall I I talked about
this last year
2019 um and in that process I sent a
letter to uh The Sun News noted
explaining about a public State Bank
that's what I like to call it um
and also I wrote a letter to the
governor Lan Grisham too to help get her
support on
it when I heard about uh exporting
products it was just a week or so ago I
was talking to a
business um in fact it was last week I
said um here you're producing this
product here have you explored possibly
exporting it to other parts of the
country or or some else other place and
they they happen to say no but I thought
this was something that they should try
to do and perhaps a some money from the
state a State Bank like this would help
him do that as you were explaining Mr
Rayfield um so I have a I I think I have
a question for uh Dr Ericson
um uh with all the things that you
explained um can you explain how the
Bank of North Dakota has been so
successful for all these years because
one of the things they claim is that
they get through depressions and and
recessions a little easier in North
Dakota than other states do um so they
aren't as hit as hard as the rest of the
country and they claim the the the state
public Bank there is the one that helps
them do that can you explain the success
of North Dakota well um I so my
understanding is that the that the State
Bank up there does intervene in the
economy to help smooth out the state
business cycle and then I me if I
remember the story correctly there was a
national natural disaster that they were
instrumental in um funding people's
recovery from early on um and all those
things are important and useful things
to do um I I would but the the the issue
is one are we have institutions of
course in place for doing that now
better than we did when this 100 years
ago when the bank was first established
and then secondly uh uh I I think that
we need to remember that when the State
Bank of North Dakota did that they were
engaging in a at least a quasi
governmental activity of stabilizing the
economy and um and that's fine and
that's good and a private bank won't do
that that's why you need the Federal
Reserve that's why you need institutions
like that and if that's what you want to
do with this state bank or this public
Bank just I think people need to be
honest about that's all I'm saying that
it is not it is not a free ride it is it
comes with cost it may be that it that
the the goals you're trying to achieve
can be achieved more effectively through
a public Bank although it's not
completely clear to me that that that
that's true I I need convincing on that
that the public bank is the best way to
achieve these various goals
I see well thank you I appreciate that
um so uh that I think is all I have for
now Mr Mayor okay looks like councelor
beta sty has a comment or question yes
thank you mayor um and thank you Angela
Dan uh Dr eron um for joining us today
and um uh mayor protim Emeritus Thomas
um I do have a couple question questions
and really it's to whoever would like to
answer them um you know this was not an
area I was super familiar with so I was
I was doing research um I was going to I
was just looking U benefits um kind of
the concerns that were raised um and one
of the biggest issues that kind of came
about was that of oversight and um
seeing who has who has that oversight
and how do you minimize the risk of um
having any sort of and oftentimes it was
uh labeled as political or governmental
interference um for risky loans um and
so what does this um legislation um how
does it address those
issues yes
H thank you uh counselor uh for that
question uh Angela merker um in our we
had a Banking Committee that worked
about nine months that included UNM
Finance Professor U Credit Union and a
former Community Bank leadership and
others from the financial industry and
we developed a recommendation for a
governance structure that includes uh
participation of professional
organizations in selecting
um nominees for the board positions a
board that would have staggered terms
that would include uh people with
experience in the banking industry but
also in Community Development and so but
they would all be financially savvy so
there's and the selections would be made
from um Senators uh representatives and
the governor but they would be initially
vetted through professional
organizations with criteria um
designated and also they would select
the CEO and the rest of the team the
compliance officers regulatory people uh
loan officers that would be a part of
the operational uh staff of the bank um
so all with uh banking experience proven
banking experience and also uh with some
sensitivity to um Community engagement
or
um Civic Civic stewardship so these are
not going to be Bankers that ultimately
want to work on Wall Street they they're
not going to make the Megabucks and the
bill millions of dollars of um bonuses
but they are going to be people who have
quality backgrounds and bring together
expertise there so we we think our
recommendation for both the operational
staff
Staffing and also the board membership
uh will build um some pretty strong
walls for um oversight and protection in
addition to the whole chartering process
that will
definitely um meet regulatory
requirements with
FDIC and also set the stage for access
to the Federal Reserve for overnight
deposits and things like that so we
spent a lot of time discussing um those
different guard rails because we know
excuse me we know that in the history of
New Mexico that's that's been an issue
about how to how to maintain the trust
and the support of the public in those
kinds of Institutions so I think we've
um we've given a pretty extensive look
at
that thank you and um as those s um are
continuing um might I plugin um just the
fact of looking into Equity of making
sure that all regions of the state are
taken into account especially if um we
are looking into agriculture areas
too that's definitely a factor and it um
is related to that um that part of the
board population and what is their
experience in Community Development uh
the rural areas we especially want to
make sure are included this is not just
for the larger cities it's how do we
bring equity in the participation on the
board thank you um and as we look at
this I know that with any Bank um public
private um there's always risk
associated with everything um and while
we've had a very good example with um
South Dakota for their Bank
um what are some of the other risks that
we have to look into and how well have
other Banks um done and are we
addressing any of the potential failures
others have had um are we addressing any
of those and changing anything um in
this legislation well Angela merard here
I think that um the way that the board
has been proposed board has been
structured as one way of address
addressing what have been weaknesses
before if if a public Bank was attempted
and didn't work it tended to be more
weighted toward
um moving um having more emphasis on the
political operation rather than the
actual
um what's the real banking operation and
not having a clear mission and vision
for the bank um in addition I would say
that
um the um excuse me I don't know where
the Frog came from in addition we have a
number of states who are um we're where
we are talking to each other and looking
at um what are the mistakes of the past
and and saying how can we strengthen
this and make it better state by state
California now has legislation that is
enabling both Municipal and Regional
public Banks they're very a very large
state so they don't want to go with a
full State Bank unless they do an
infrastructure bank which they are
talking about Massachusetts is going
with an infrastructure Bank uh New
Jersey is about to approve their public
bank and and um there's a Consortium of
18 states in the Northeast and Midwest
that recently had um
that Think Tank working with those
States recently completed a report and
made a recommendation that each of the
18 states
um move into the study of a state bank
for each of their states to bring Focus
efficiency and Effectiveness to their um
to their financial systems because of
the drainage of funds through to the
global Banks especially especially since
the recession a lot of interest has
built up since
0708 because of the vulnerability that's
been highlighted in the global Banks and
so um the public Bank movement has
caught fire uh with an attempt to for
states to get more control and be able
to manage and focus their not only their
spending but also their Investments for
the betterment of the state itself
rather than for the commercial Banks so
there are about 23 to 25 States now that
are in different stages of
um either study or moving the
legislation forward for this so the
mistakes have been learned and they've
been shared and those mistakes have been
but we're attempting to turn those into
strengths counselor for the enhanc ment
of the current legislation coming
out and councelor a beta stove thank you
for your question Dan Mayfield here and
uh your question about risk uh in our
Pro foro we estimate that the uh
budgeting in our proor for 2% loan
losses that seems to be uh what public
Banks experience and then we look at
this too in terms not in terms of risk
but in terms of building resiliency in
across your Meo we have these Peaks and
valleys of economic fortunes right and a
public Bank what it does is lowers that
risk it keeps it basically level and
builds resiliency into the economy so
that when we do have a downturn we have
support to push that back up and I think
rather than looking at this in terms of
how much risk does it provide I look at
this in terms of how much resiliency and
how much does it support the economy as
a whole so thank you very
much thank you um and thank you mayor
those are all my questions at this time
you councelor
Vasquez thank you mayor um thank you for
those great questions councelor mayi as
well um appreciate the the Insight
gained there and for all of our
presenters um thank you I think I don't
have too many questions um mostly just
some want to offer some comments um I
think um you know we had a conversation
just recently about payday lending and
how toxic the payday lending industry is
to our communities um across uh really
across the state but in particular in
Los cruus where we know we have um kind
of predatory loan companies uh really
concentrating in specific areas of our
city and obviously taking a lot of money
um out of people's pockets that probably
can't afford traditional lending
products um and this is the only way
they have um to to to get by um I know
this sign significantly different in the
types of products and services that
would be offered and that the public
bank would not be a perhaps a consumer
facing entity like a like a regular bank
but I think in the in the macro view of
our state economy making access to
Capital um easier for um especially
low-income folks that want to do things
like start a business or buy a home
really helps our communities to start
digging out of some of the economic um
challenges that that we have that are
that are really great and so um I love
to see Solutions proposed um especially
like I said when we talk about the pay
the problem with payday lenders um right
we don't just want to lower the interest
rates to 36% we want to figure out ways
to generate economic activity for
communities and folks who don't
traditionally have access to credit um
the way that that others um who who uh
just you know are more wealthy or or
have the opportunity to do and so I
think this is a good start to to coming
up with that solution um
I'm really attracted just by the fact
that um again you know you don't have
that type of entity that's really driven
by shareholders in a way that um
generates earnings for you know the the
top you know 1% of an institution where
CEOs and other folks are compensated
greatly um that really drives some of
the the loan products that Banks produce
right because you have a lot of money to
pay out to a lot of folks uh in this
type of institution and so by not having
that model lower interest traes um being
able to take a little bit more risk uh
seems like a natural byproduct of
something like this um similar to um uh
councelor beta sty of course questions
about well who you know who runs this
Bank who's on the board how do we make
sure that we also keep undo influence
out of a public institution like this uh
government is not immune to that kind of
thing as as we all know um so that would
be an important thing for me to consider
in the selection process and how this
bank is actually controlled if if if it
were to be created um and then lastly uh
the the resiliency of downturns right
and being able to pump money into an
economy uh when when banks are reluctant
to lend or when credit is really low um
you know this being kind of a Lifeline
for New Mexicans to be able to um you
know Access Capital during economic
downturns which you know we're we're
we're really kind of in a recession now
but I expect more to be coming later um
right I think they they cycle in out of
our of our economic system for various
reasons and so uh this could be a really
useful thing for New Mexico to help dig
itself out um of of moments of economic
recession U by by being able to pump
some of those monies back into local
economies um and so overall I think this
is uh beneficial I think I I definitely
support this um I really haven't duck
too much into the actual legislation
that's proposed but on its merits I am
supportive of it and so um I think those
are all the the comments have for now
but really appreciate all the different
perspectives uh Dr Arison good good to
see you as well and thank you for um uh
I don't want to say Playing devil's
advocate here but making us see the
whole picture I I you're good at that
and so I really appreciate you U
bringing that perspective I'm glad to
have you here so thank you thank you
mayor thank you mayor
protim yeah thanks mayor thanks to all
of you for being here um Angela Dan um
Sharon um Dr Eric son um just to some
points that Dr Ericson made um you know
he brought forth um the bank that the
county is now under a couple of years
ago I think mayor right two or three
years the city moved into um um more of
a localized Bank um um efforts from a
from um a group that felt very strongly
that we should not be banking with Wells
Fargo and we too felt we shouldn't be
banking um there and but I I remember
the difficulty um in um creating that
RFP and capacity even within the city of
Los Cruses and um being able to find a
bank that had right the necessary
um um capability that we were that we
were looking for so my question is what
this public Bank assist in that process
and how would that how would that um be
if we decided I mean how are
municipalities um um included in in this
process I I wondered if you have been
having conversations with the municipal
League um the the the the county
organization and what their thoughts are
um related to
that mayor pro gandar thank you this is
Dan Mayfield and uh the way we're
looking at this legislation is that it
would not uh it would not interfere with
uh Municipal deposits and how they're
deposited today in your local banks uh
in fact it's great to see a municipality
like Los cruus step up and say we want
to use the local banks for deposits
that's amazing uh at the state level it
simply takes a tiny tiny portion of the
state's deposits that are going into a
global bank now and takes that little
tiny bit and just puts it into something
else else it's basically that can be
used across the state uh for for
municipalities if you if you want to do
a project say you didn't want to do a
bonding you wanted to do something on a
loan with a loan instead uh you could do
that through the state bank but not even
through the state bank and what I keep
what we keep forgetting in this is that
the state bank would partner with local
banks so if your local bank uh I don't
know which institution you're using
right now but if your local bank wanted
to Len L Los Cru is more money for say
your new animal shelter um but they
couldn't come up with it because they
just a smaller local bank they could go
to the state bank and get more and lowc
cost Capital so it's it's it partners
with those local banks that you're
already using it doesn't supplant them
it doesn't take loans away it doesn't do
it doesn't provide on the ground lending
it uses your local bank already uh
because your loan officers in your
community know what your community needs
the loan officer in t knows what T needs
right loan officer in Deming knows what
they need in Deming and that's important
and that's key that's one way that it
keeps everything local working better
locally so if your local Bank in Las
cruus you put your deposits in now says
hey we could use extra help the State
Bank could help and guarantee that
loan if I can speak up may proam um
Angela merkt um another point though is
that um the deposits from the
municipalities we're not seeing as uh
going into the state public bank at this
point that is a model that Bank of North
Dakota does use we do see an incremental
increase of State revenues going into
the State Bank beyond that first 50
million and and doing an increasing um
deposit there so that It ultimately
becomes the primary depository and
and decreasing those deposits in the
global Banks um the fir the primary one
of which is Wells Fargo right now but um
that doesn't mean that Downstream there
couldn't be partnering there with both
the Community Banks and Credit Unions
holding some of the um deposits of the
municipalities and the counties and then
some of it being deposited in the State
Bank it it really is as Dan mentioned
dependent on what the capacity is for
the Holdings of those particular Banks
and what their collateral is for you
know holding the larger amounts which it
sounds like you went through that
process of discerning that when you were
moving the
funds we did and it was pretty tough and
found out very quickly that there were
very few banks that had that capacity
and so if I could put a pitch for the
public banking to have to build that
capacity within our communities
initially right so that we continue and
I'm all for I'm I'm supportive of this
for sure I don't I would hate for our F
our money I hate our money leaving right
Wall Street gets to sort of dictate
where that is and when you listen to um
the finance committees and others right
speaking to how they're investing our
money it's always outside of New Mexico
and um and so we really need very
interested in building Community well
ensuring that um that it's Equitable
that we close the gaps um um you know
the wage Gap women and and Men right and
and really looking at the board and that
it looks like our community um currently
and and so um again very um very
interested in this um again I came in
like
um councelor Sor and councelor FLOTUS
after a conversation with Elaine in
Santa Fe when we could convene that
feels like many moons ago um was very
interested and and quickly tried to
build you know my education capacity
related to this um the other thing is
how are you preparing in the event it
passes um to capture if you will um if
the the marijuana bill passes
recreational marijuana would
you I mean I'm not sure how how that is
going to work and what the bills
suggests for that particular point but
um I'm wondering if there's
conversations um um already in place
related to so sorry Council um mayor
proen gondo this is Dan Mayfield and
because this is not a retail bank it
wouldn't really interact in that whole
cannabis world right it wouldn't take
business dep osit at all so it's just
taking State money and letting it back
out to Banks it's a banker's bank so it
wouldn't really interact in that
business e World however right now there
are a number of credit union in New
Mexico and a couple of community banks
that are already banking cannabis funds
and they would love to be able to
support more dispensaries more hemp
Growers more of those they are legal
businesses here in the state and they
would love to support them but those
businesses because they are working on
that weird quasi legal kind of space
right it makes those loans for a
Traditional Bank much more tough to do
so with State Bank support and with a
State Bank guarantee for that loan it
could close the gap and help the
dispensaries and help The Growers help
the Transporters help everybody in that
world grow but it would not directly to
take any uh cannabis related deposits
because it's not a retail bank got it
got it thank you for close that Gap
app thanks for those questions May so
just a couple things now I'm G on on the
flip side um most likely we are not
going to see an actual State Bank here
in our city is most likely going to be
in Santa Fe because that's just where
they that's where they if this is going
to be State money it's just going to be
probably One Bank in the state or well
you putting your hands up di are you
suggest that we could have one here in
Los cruus well it would be one big
office Mr Mayor one big
office or Albuquerque I mean let's be
candid here I just because there's no
way we're going to use it for our City
Bank for our city of Las cruus Bank May
po it's just it's just just that's
impossibility because it just doesn't
work like that we need to have we need
to have it locally in deposit and that's
something that I don't think we're
looking to do but the the the second
thing is I wanted to talk about is uh
the one of the things where I see this
benefiting is when we deal with
affordable housing where we you we tap
into the tailore fund and we give him
10% and we charge him 3% interest or so
now the State Bank hopefully would be
able to do that and then we wouldn't
have to tap into the tore fund or we can
do another we can do another project but
I just want the council to know that
this is this Bank most likely will not
sit in Los cruus I I'd be willing to
venture to say 99.9 9% it's not going to
be here it's either going to be in
Albuquerque but most likely Santa Fe I'm
I'm thinking um and you're you're and
and Angela I have to tell you I'm a
little bit concerned because if it looks
like if it looks like we're going to
start moving to try to take in other
accounts from from municipalities then
um I guess I need to have a little bit
more specific language because the way
it was told to me I'm okay with it but
if we start deviating from that and we
start know expanding to to to now
compete against local Community Banks
and Banks uh there's no way I'm going to
support this no mayor U this is Angela
merkt um I don't mean to um imply that
that's the goal uh the I just mentioned
that the that's a model that North
Dakota Bank of North Dakota is using and
uh and what I really wanted to emphasize
there was the incremental increase of
the state's revenues into the bank and
um we're the there's not an exclusion of
other uh governmental bodies who might
want to do that but that is far from um
any kind of goal or Focus that um anyone
is placing on the bank it's really about
State revenues and um more effective use
of State funds
okay now did you mention 50 million or
something like that did I hear 50
million somewhere 50 million as a start
the state has um on any given day has
three to S billion dollars uh deposited
in the various Global Banks there are
about seven to eight of them that those
funds are uh held in and we're talking
about uh 50 million of that as deposits
and then leveraging that up to 450 to
500 million for uh partnership loans uh
with the credit unions and Community
Banks as we
start I didn't realize they had that
much cash available at least that's what
I couldn't find that when I when I when
I looked that up I found less than a
billion um still quite a bit of money
but I didn't I didn't see what you what
you the amount you're talking about um
mayor the and merket this uh that's
information that's come directly from
the treasurer's office about their
average U
Holdings
okay uh mayor portam did you have
another
question I did mayor I I hadn't finished
um the question my
[Music]
questioning yeah thank you um um I
wanted to ask um and mayor you alluded
to some um having the location be in
Santa Fe not in Los CR say and typically
we all know we've been talking a lot
about being the second largest city and
county and working
collaboratively along up and down the
county right more strength and numbers
and I don't know about you and maybe you
all don't know this because you don't
live here um with the exception of Dr
Ericson is that we're always always
feeling like Left Behind down south so
what you know how can I be rest assured
that that kind of funding is going to be
disseminated in my community
specifically especially when we have a
24% and probably a little higher now
poverty rate and just all those gaps in
in equity um and and
wage yeah May Port don't get me wrong
I'd love to have it here Las cruus but
I'm just thinking
realistically why not a
office hey let's put it in the let's put
it in the um in the uh resolution yep
and just say this resolution only works
if the the bill says it's for Los rusus
if it doesn't it it does then then it's
a no vote why
not what what allowances or you know can
you can you share with us in regards to
um how that in terms of equity I mean
we're we fight for everything we get
right um we feel kind of Forgotten and
we have to remind people all the time
that we exist over
here mayor pro gandar thank you oh I'm
sorry thank you very much and that's one
of the reasons why we brought uh Carrie
handin with us today and just steinborn
the sponsor is a CER from near neck of
the woods too and they understand these
issues and they absolutely understand
the the poverty in your neighborhood
they understand what is important On the
Border you know um and
why don't we include something about G
you know he's actually texting me right
now saying we could include something
requiring Geographic diversity of
opportunity and we saw huge opportunity
when we were talking to Jerry peo and
Jerry was seeing so many of the economic
development programs that the Bank of
North Dakota does today that we
basically just steal all their ideas and
make it work for New Mexico right right
Jerry Peko was saying that and he's
certainly a priority I think for legisl
and for the board that would be created
for this public bank right uh and then
you see the high growth High poverty
communities that certainly need all the
help certainly need all the small
business support they can get uh and
then we see the rural communities where
especially there are farmers who are
having trouble getting their chattel
loans Farmers that are having issues
with their uh equipment loans things
like that that's where the public Bank
fills in all the gaps that are not being
filled in today and I think just by
nature of being a high growth High
poverty High need and high potential
area MOS Cruses would see a lot of the
benefits from this you know especially
with guys like Jerry Pacho showing us
every day how much his work is doing to
support the Border you know and then of
course because this all partners with
your local banks it doesn't steal those
loans from your local banks it partners
with them so they're making the loans
they're making those loan payments down
the street the branch down the street
from you they're not driving to s to
make those payments right so all of your
local financial institutions grow as
well understanding thank you appreciate
it thanks
mayor okay anybody
else all right well thank you very
everyone for your um input yes Barbara
yes I apologize this is Barbara delion
um let me just I and I can't um raise my
hand since I'm
a a co-host of the meeting but I just
wanted to um remind you all that the
resolution for legislative priorities
that's going to be coming back to
council has one item in it with respect
to a State Bank previously we had passed
a resolution to request uh that the
state provide funding for a feasibility
study for State Bank so if we want to um
amend that resolution we can do so when
it comes back to council so that we can
then craft something more specific to um
your needs based on the presentation and
the direction that you would like to go
in so I just wanted to to let you all
know that okay so thank you Barbara so
Angela did they not fund the money for a
feasibility
study I thought they did something I
thought the legislature did
something Angela merard uh no May the
feasibility study was n done so we took
it up on our own and we did the um um we
did the banking report or uh the
business plan for a uh public bank and
worked with UNM faculty and um and um
other leaders of credit unions and
former Community Bankers um here in the
state along with some other people with
investment background so and developed a
fiveyear for us so we're working off of
that and uh this in the 2021 session
will be um asking for the legislation
that actually enables the formation of
the
bank we the memorial passed in the house
but it didn't it ran out of time on the
floor if you recall the 2019 session had
that backlog of legislation and um and
they were dropping some of the memorials
uh to give more time to some of the
actual Legislation during that
time okay so the okay so um the memorial
didn't P pass the house but not the
Senate is that what you're saying
correct it got um it had a tie vote in
the Senate rules committee and it uh did
pass Committee in the house and just
didn't get floor time so what are you
looking for from this Council now what a
different resolution or what what
specifically are you looking for the
same resolution that we passed before or
a different one no I think that we've
submitted a template for a different
resolution that will endorse the
formation of a state public Bank to be
located in Los cruus if you choose to
add that that is definitely your
choice for Los cruus use only we'll put
in May Pam you had a
question I I do mayor more on um Mr
Leon's comment I think what would be
really effective for us is that those
resolutions that we do pass that staff
um you know um work through um making
sure that it shepherding those bills if
you will not not I'm not saying
necessarily like what Larry heran does
but someone needs to pay attention in
the city about where they go where they
sto who voted for what so that then
they're informing Council so that we can
inform our
constituency um you know what's
happening um moving forward it's really
difficult to manage all of what I what
we're doing here but also what's going
up up there someone needs to be
shepherding that um to include Larry
heran of course but um I I I I would
like more detail um as it goes into
which committee and and who voted on it
um um and we don't ever really see the
bill in its final stages and the
analysis that's being made we should get
to see that it's public
record okay good mayor proam yes um we
can definitely um take that into account
when we develop the reporting to you
after the legislative session as you
mentioned working with Larry haran uh we
can have our policy analysts follow up
with the information that you require
with respect to the priorities that
we're putting forward for the state
thank you for the
input okay you um councelor florus and
then councelor
vosque thank you mayor and thank you uh
Miss merkert and Mr Mayfield and uh and
Dr Ericson for your um for your
presentation your viewpoints uh Dr
Ericson um I just I just received a an
email from uh a constituent who has a
local business so I just if I may Mr
Mayor uh just read it
um just read part of
it quote although my own business has
largely issued credit we have at various
points out loans for some projects we
never really got traction on those
though either because National Banks
weren't interested or because they were
beyond the scope of a local credit union
having another option for local banks to
turn to for Capital would would enable
them to finance more
projects um and there was a whole
analysis before that but that was the
upshot of his uh text and I think that
that's what uh Mr Mayfield has been
emphasizing uh filling that Gap and and
um I wholeheartedly agree with uh mayor
km's
um ask uh regarding Las cus is not being
looked behind not being left behind I I
call it I endearingly call it the
bastard uh part of the state um anything
south of uh anything I guess south
of would it be anything south of
Albuquerque maybe is out there we're all
it's south of Bin I was going to say
south of sakuro right but it's
specifically south of Bin bin Bethlehem
did you know that means Bethlehem in
Spanish I didn't yes old little town of
Bethlehem our darling B but um anyway I
just I do support um I do support this
uh but I have a just a so there's no um
no
Bank per se that people go to is there a
structure are there employees um how how
and I don't want to get into the weeds
too much but somehow it almost sounds
like it's going to be a up in the cloud
somewhere so can either one of you
explain that I'm sorry councelor what
was your question again my question is
whether there's going to be a brick and
mortar building a facility and whether I
know that you think Mr Mayor that it's
going to be in housed in Santa Fe well
not with our new resolution that says
Los cruus oh yeah that's true that's
true but um I I need to I would I I
would like to know how this is going to
work in terms of a you know the the the
human factor are there going to be
employees who's going to benefit in that
regard also a point brought up by my
constituent Mr Michael Harris by the way
who's on our economic recovery board
and um who has a lot of insights U very
very intelligent highly intelligent man
can you answer that question U Mr
Mayfield and or Miss
merker got sure thank you thank you
councilor flos this is Dan Mayfield and
um there will be a staff it actually is
not a huge large staff but there would
be a staff for it there would be a
director there' be a board of directors
a CEO
and then the the largest part of any
bank is the uh the regulatory side of it
right and who deals with all the
compliance issues and that's something
we take very very seriously in the
proposal and it's something where we
have to really pay a lot of attention to
and that means all the loan officers and
all the people who make sure that all
the things uh are Fally legal state
legal ethically legal all of those
things right uh there would be a staff
and there would be a building uh we
don't imagine it being 300 people but uh
it would take enough people to make sure
the loans happen you know uh but not not
a huge huge group of folks and all those
people all of their salaries uh would
come from the earnings of the bank
itself they would not be state
employees hello this is Melissa may I
just add to that this is Melissa
picket
please um I just wanted to add to that
just to to paint a vis ual for you so in
essence the the demand would come from
all of the
people the demand would come from all of
the people in Los crusis andon Ana
County who needed the loan those folks
let's say the rural farmer who um got
together with a number of other pecan
Growers wanted to put together a
processing so that right now you're
probably aware that a lot of the pean
processing goes to Los uh to Nevada so
let's say for example uh that the
several of the pean farmers got together
and said you know we really want to be
able to process our peans here so they
would in essence go to your local credit
unions and Community Banks and they
would apply for their loan just like
they would normally do and this I'm a
former Banker by the way
uh so I spent a lot of years in the
banking world and I I have a lot of um
understanding about what banks can do
within the boundaries of their own loan
limitations uh we saw many deals for
example that were right on the edge but
a little bit out of the Comfort level
for for our bank given given what our
parameters were so in a case like that
where did we go we went to an SBA or
something like that but your Farmers
would go to their local credit unions or
Community Banks and present their their
plan and their business plan and then
the community bank or credit
union would go to the public bank so in
essence the public bank is not
necessarily even known um to the
borrower because the face is still with
the Community Banks and credit unions
so hopefully that paints a little bit uh
of a picture of how how the bank would
work so um the the um the public Bank
itself the importance of it is is that
the bones will be in place with the
firewalls with the transparency with the
governance the public bank will be run
by Pro by uh experienced
bankers and those are the folks holding
the bones or the
infrastructure to enable the the access
for the for the Community Banks and and
Credit Unions so access is an important
point of all this which is why one of
the reasons why Bank of North Dakota has
been so successful because uh they are
um the loans are much more accessible
they gave out more PPP loans than
anywhere in the country why because they
had educated their Community Banks uh as
to what to do with the PPP loans so when
the demand came in they were able to get
those loans out so accessibility and
ease is really important I also just
wanted to point out uh real quickly that
the Bank of North Dakota their uh loan
loss is a little under 2% which within
industry standards is more than
acceptable so I think that's an
important thing to note and um
I think that's that's all the the
clarification that I had to be helpful
here thank
you okay councelor fotus said I answer
your
question oh you're muted oh there you're
good you're good now thank you thank you
mayor and thank you Mr Mayfield and
thank you Miss ticket okay okay thanks
councelor
vasus thank you mayor um so I think I
found a solution to this Santa fate
problem um so we build a we build a
roundhouse in Las cruus and we call it
um The Roundhouse South right so we have
alternating capitals every year uh we
can have a legislative session in Santa
Fe and then the next year we have one in
Los Cruses um it's a good economic
development project for us um we get to
build a better roundhouse than the one
in Santa Fe uh and then we get the power
of having people have to travel what
four or five hours the way we do up to
the legislative session so um we'll put
a prop a resolution forward for that um
during our next council
meeting um but seriously I I think um uh
to to some of uh I think councilor mayor
protim Gand has questions um about these
resolutions that we're about to pass or
that we're about to look at again as a
council that we group together from
prior um uh things that we support at
the legislature um because we don't know
I think the details and are not
privation that's in development um we
are probably not going to be as specific
I think in some of those resolutions as
we were in past in times past when we
had actual bill numbers and um pre-filed
bills that we could look at uh so I
think uh just to not not there be any
surprises since I was working on this
with Barbara and others is the general
principles I think of what the council
supports when it pertains to these
issues are what mostly is going to be
listed in some of these resolutions of
support um uh and I think this is a
helpful conversation to have that we
could include in that resolution that's
coming up to Council in terms of some of
the things that were discussed that seem
to be consensus amongst amongst the
council so I just wanted to offer that
information um so that we know what
we're going to be looking at here soon
thank you mayor okay well thank you okay
well we'll just let you get with staff
and see what kind of proposal that the
resolution that you would like for us to
look at and then perhaps we make some
changes so okay okay well thank you very
much everyone for your information and
your discussion and thank you all so
very much thank you mayor thank you very
much and councelor Vasquez in that
resolution please include Los cruus
weather is much better in February than
Santa
Fe great Point thanks Dan yeah thanks
Dan oh true
we could really leverage some things if
we did
that all right uh so now we're going to
go ahead and go to item 3.2 which is the
tid report discussion tid being a tax
increment development district and looks
like Dr Martinez and Dana Belzer will be
um leading this
off yes good afternoon
mayor we're getting some feedback here
so if you all would mute
your uh computers if you're not speaking
please good afternoon mayor and city
council my name is grela Martinez I'm
the economic development director for
city of Las Cruses um today's
presentation it's an opportunity for us
to have the debrief of the royal
Crossing tid that was performed uh by
Dina Belzer with strategic economics in
partnership with Daniel Hernandez with
procto
this was a request from city council
back uh earlier this year when we were
discussing the Royal Crossing and this
is an opportunity for us to learn about
the pros and cons of atid in general and
also specific to the Royal Crossing uh
proposal so with no further um do I will
pass it on to Dena beler with strategic
economics who was the expert uh doing
the peerreview
on this
topic thank you this is Dina Bowzer with
strategic economics and thank you to Dr
Martinez for that introduction um I'm
going to share my screen and um uh go
through a PowerPoint with you
summarizing um the uh let's
see the um the findings let's see oops
wait a minute
I'm sorry Aden you um did you uh
introduce yourself or you state your
name I did State my name but I'll say it
again I'm Dena Belzer with strategic
economics and again I'm part of the team
that was retained to do this peer review
so okay I'm G to share my
screen here we
uh let's see okay can you all see my uh
screen yes great thank you uh
let's
see again uh I'm part of a team that was
retained in July of 2020 my colleague
Daniel Daniel Hernandez couldn't be with
us this afternoon but because I did the
uh majority of the work and actually
wrote the memo that you all have seen I
think this should uh be just fine that
Daniel is not available we are current
Daniel and I are currently working
together with the city of Santa Fe and
so we're uh familiar with the the
development context in New Mexico so
that's why we were brought in to do this
work we started in July by reviewing all
of the materials that had been submitted
to the governing body dated July 6 2020
it was a very large submission package
that included uh a
resolution um to uh move forward with
the tid uh in addition to that we spoke
extensively with City staff who uh were
very uh transparent and helpful in
sharing with us information what the
work that they had done etc etc we
talked to Donna Ana County staff we uh
interviewed the chief administrative
officer for the City of Albuquerque just
to be able to get some perspective from
uh another city in New Mexico who has
used to districts we talked to your um
financial adviser from Hilltop
Securities and finally uh spent a lot of
time reviewing the state enabling
legislation for the tax increment
development districts so those are the
steps we went
through um in terms of our general
findings what we found is that um tax
increment uh revenues this process of
setting when you form a tax increment
District you set you set your um uh base
year is what it's called so if you had
created the district this year 2020
would have been your base year and then
the amount of property tax and uh uh
grossy receipts tax that that area is
generating uh would be Frozen and
everything at that level and Below would
be allocated to all the taxing entities
as it has before but any incremental
increase in property tax and GRT tax
would then be re redistributed
differently uh with some with some
percentage of that Revenue going into
the Tex increment District um and this
is the way tax increment works
everywhere in the country you set this
space year some States Tax uh property
tax increment uh a few States like
Colorado tax sales tax uh New Mexico
gross receipts tax is an unusual uh form
of Taxation um uh I'm not aware of other
states that use a g receipts tax like
this maybe others uh participating in
today's call are um and so the way that
your gross uh receipts tax are
calculated is um also unique to New
Mexico but this idea of capturing an
increment above a Baseline and then uh
reinvesting it in uh towards a specific
purpose is again very
common usually these tools are used to
spur reinvestment in places that are um
experiencing uh investment or blight so
they're really tied to trying to bring
places back and they're very focused on
infrastructure investments in most
locals that use tax increment revenues
uh there is borrowing that goes on uh
this was one of the um issues that was
being debated I think with respect to
the Royal Crossings tid um uh and it is
one of the proposals that the developer
was making in their financing plan is
that they would be borrowing against uh
tid revenues this is again very common
Most states require but four proof to
justify uh establishing a tax increment
District so you have to be able to make
the case that if the revenues were not
red redirected back into this area and
the infrastructure Investments weren't
made then the development would not
occur and then also Most states provide
very strict guidance as to what uses can
be paid for using tax
increment now in New Mexico tax
increment districts uh by the way all of
these districts are enabled by state
legislation and in New Mexico um you
have two kinds of tax increment
financing districts and tids are uh
directed towards and initiated by
private developers they're not uh
typically initiated by cities so it's
important to recognize that tax
increment funding and financing uh is
used in different ways in New Mexico and
a tax increment development district has
its own very specific parameters um
these tid districts can be a powerful
development incentive uh for places that
uh have experienced uh uh lower amounts
or a lack of new uh Capital investing in
that area tid districts in New Mexico
are specifically focused on job creation
not so much much on blight removal or
even on Community Development so by
Community Development I mean a lot of
the um uh Community benefits that are
mentioned in the legislation like
affordable housing or green
infrastructure um but the the real focus
of the legislation is how many jobs can
we
create um uh the fund improvements uh
will everything that's paid for through
a tid will eventually become a public
asset and I think this is a really
important thing to keep in mind which is
why I have highlighted it here um
because it really plays into some of my
findings from later on the New Mexico
legislation for the tid districts is
also very Loosely structured compared to
allowable uses uh in other states uh
compared to what the uh around to what
funds can be applied um and it also
allows developers it gives the
developers the control over determining
what projects would be in the in the
district uh and there's uh an incentive
I I don't know that it was an explicit
incentive but in my reading of the
legislation there was an implicit inen
incentive for developers to create um as
large a district as possible and when I
say large I mean the cost so the size of
the dollar amount of the cost um and the
developer would shift as many potential
costs into the tid District so that it's
paid the the cost of uh uh paying for
those uh comes out of public Revenue as
opposed to out of the developers Revenue
um and then as I mentioned before the
tid legislation does not require any um
Community benefits to be provided it
mentions in the statute certain certain
benefits uh and says they should be
considered
um so uh when I read through the
developers uh financing plan they do
mention these uh kinds of community
benefits but obviously they were not
included in the um project
costs um in terms of the royal Crossings
tid I looked uh at both the costs and
the revenues so I'm going to start by
talking about the costs and uh one of
the uh key things that I observe was
that the cost items that were included
um some of them were clearly public
assets and things that the that the
public would own so certain kinds of
Street improvements and I'm gonna I'm
going to go over the costs in a minute
in more detail but I want to make this
point that there are some gray areas in
the legislation um that would give the
city some flexibility um so Road
Improvement to streets to access ways
that are are streets that the city
already owns and would be improved
through the tid District that's a clear
public um uh facility but then there are
there were other items in the uh cost
proposal that could uh fall into a gray
area and uh the three that I identified
were parking surface parking and
structured parking future Parks uh which
in this uh context are not big parks
like aaka park there they were small um
Courtyards or Open Spaces that were
really amenities to the development
project and finally there was storm
water
retention so in most development
projects that have a Suburban nature
like this project did does surface
parking uh those kinds of Park and um uh
amenity facilities and even water
retention are typically paid for by the
developer they don't become long-term
public facilities and uh the structured
parking is um debatable but structured
parking would have been a much longer
term Prospect so it's not even clear
that structured parking would have been
required and then there are some public
improvements uh that were included in
the district so ter trail system
improvements and improvements to opaka
park that might potentially have been
financed using less expensive approaches
than uh a tid um and then would have
also taken them out of the um tid timing
so let's move to my chart here and these
costs one of the issues is that um the
the final cost amount that the developer
was defining in the tid was a bit of a
moving Target um so this number that I'm
showing you here is not the same dollar
amount that you saw in the July 6th uh
submitt that came to the city council
this was in a um a version of the
financing plan that was s submitted to
the city in August and what it what you
will notice is not in this estimate that
was in earlier cost estimates is
operating and maintenance costs
operating and maintenance costs for a
tid District are allowable in New Mexico
I might add that that is not usually
allowed in other states this is the
first time I've ever seen operating and
maintenance cost allowed in a tax
increment District um so again um you
see here Samaritan Drive Pioneer Drive
Hurst Avenue um the Solano Drive inter
uh interchange these are all public
improvements um and then there are the
um internal streets um and the trail and
park system and some of these other um
improvements that are more in the gray
area particularly surface part parking
and the structured parking garages and
this list is in here just the way they
were listed in the um financing plan uh
so and these are the the proposed
developer costs and what I was trying to
show is that if you start to be um uh
think more critically about removing
some of these costs you can start to
pretty quickly reduce the amount of
money um that would uh go into the tax
increment District the reason why I
suggest that really working to uh uh
narrow down the list of costs here is
because the sooner these costs get paid
off uh excuse me the the lower the
amount of um cost that you have um the
less amount of tax increment you're uh
going to be you're the project is going
to need to generate in terms in order to
cover these costs um and it also could
potentially uh uh make the district more
viable so if the district is is includes
a lot of these cost save for example
structured parking that's $21 Million
worth of of cost and the district can
continue to collect money uh up to the $
48.8 million in for the entire time that
the district is oper operating so uh if
the district doesn't collect enough
money to pay for the structured parking
um then uh it could but it it could
collect half of that that money is
sitting in the district's bank account
it's not going to the city um but it
also isn't doing anything for the
district um and uh my understanding is
that Albuquerque has had this issue
where developers uh where the where the
tid board
uh can make a decision about who
controls that money and it's very
difficult to reprogram money once it's
been programmed if the tid board does
not want to do that so again it this
having these large uh costs uh the cost
um amount sitting in the tid District in
District's bank account um ties up money
that could otherwise have been freed up
to go to the city uh through the GRT and
the county through the property taxes
and it doesn't guarantee that these
projects would ever get built so um and
I I'll talk about project phasing a
little bit but one of the reasons that I
one of the other reasons that I bring
this up is because some of these
Community benefits like the trail
improvements or the apoda park
improvements which is almost $5 million
worth of improvements that money might
not be collected until a much later
phase of the
um development project and so it's not
like these uh items are going to get
built soon and yet the city's uh GRT
money uh is accumulating in The tid's
District in the tid District's bank
account so that might not be optimal so
uh in terms of the costs again uh some
of these costs uh for some of these uh
streets uh and Street improvements this
might tid might be the most efficient
way to create a mechanism to uh put
money aside to pay for these treat
improvements it also would require the
developer to build these improvements
and then potentially get reimbursed by
the city um but it's not clear that all
of these costs need to be paid for by
the city um so anyway we can uh talk
about a little bit more about some of
the strategy around this in a minute let
me get to the revenue analysis um so the
revenue projections uh were not a main
focus of the analysis uh of your
financial adviser from Hilltop
Securities um however he did note that
there were there were several anomalies
with the revenue projections in several
of the memos that he wrote to the city
um and it there's no clear paper traal
that says whether or not those anomalies
were addressed in the um uh final
financing plan but one of the things
that I did notice in my own analysis was
that the revenue projections that the
financial advisor used to then go ahead
and model feasibility with respect to
the debt or to the pay paying off of the
cost of those projects were based on
Revenue projections that the developer
provided to Hilltop Securities uh and
that were projected in January of 2020
but between January and
May and then July and then even into
August the development program kept
changing so they at they took housing
out they added housing in some of the
the retail program changed um and it
wasn't uh it wasn't clear which use was
generating Revenue in what in which year
and so again not being able to see the
correspondence between annual revenue
projection and use and development
phasing it's really difficult to tell
whether or not the developers projected
Revenue stream actually made sense and
whether or not the city might in fact be
caught in this position where there were
Pro projects that were uh pushed to a
later phase of development which might
not happen because the development would
be less
feasible um so uh this was a concern
um to me and uh the other thing that uh
well I already said that the revenue
projections were not provided on an
annual basis and this is actually
required by State Statute I don't think
this is like the big deal killer but it
did make it really hard to understand
the revenue projections in addition to
the fact that the revenue projections
that were used for the feasibility
analysis didn't accurately match the
final um buildout scenario at least as
far as I could tell um and so the
consequence of this is that um it was
very difficult again to really
understand how Revenue flow the sources
and uses of funds lined up um the other
issue that was never fully highlighted
was that if the district was not formed
in 2020 then the question is would it be
viable if it was formed after 2020
because as I understand it by forming
the district in 2020 the hospital excuse
me that had been been built recently
would be counted in the increment not in
the base
year and the hospital itself would be
responsible for generating a lot of
increment we just don't know what
percent of increment would come from the
hospital uh because we never saw that we
never saw the the revenue stream tied to
actual
development um the the medical office
building is sort of the next phase of
development we don't know quite where
that fits in uh and so then we can't
really evaluate the timing of the key
Revenue generators against the cost to
really understand how much we think we
could pay for so this is the the uh
disconnect between revenues and costs
made it hard to really interpret the
efficacy of the
feasibility so in terms of the decisions
regarding tax increment financing um uh
again one of my my uh key findings is
that there's a need for these decisions
to really be policy driven and to be
considered in the in sort of a cost
benefit analysis framework um I'm not
saying that you can do an actual quanti
quantitative uh cost benefit analys
analysis you could but sometimes those
are hard and messy to do so I use the
word assessment here um uh or a
performance assessment
um to say um that uh in making a
decision and again tid could be
absolutely the perfect tool for really
getting this Royal Crossings area going
um and I'm I'm not here to tell you that
I think that that's necessar that this
is necessarily a bad deal but uh but
that's because I don't know if this if
you really think it's the tradeoffs are
are worth it um so the question is what
what does the city get in exchange for
giving up some of its GRT revenues and
you have very general policies in uh
your general plan that suggest that the
that the old um uh Country Club area is
a target area where the city would like
to see more revitalization but it
doesn't set any specific targets about
what kinds of revitalization you would
want to see there what kinds of
community benefits
and again the the apaka blueprint that
was done for the area um doesn't set any
actual performance criteria either for
what would make the city want to take on
uh the giving up of grocy receipts tax
in exchange for what benefits um um so
when I talk about uh an cost benefit
assessment this is what I'm talking
about is an explicit discussion around
well what do we we get for what do we
give up here um and it then the second
question is is the tid mechanism the
most effective way to do this and uh if
you think that you could get the Royal
Crossings development in place but still
but expending $17 million or1 million
instead of $48
million uh you're setting aside a much
smaller portion of your uh GRT increment
to to to the district and then you would
still have the incremental increase in
Revenue that potentially you could use
more quickly to finance other things in
other words the city would have more
control over the phasing uh of that and
the city could decide and the city Also
may have access to cheaper sources of
capital so again I did not do a whole
analysis of the um interest rates that
these I think these were taxable bonds
that the that the district uh would be
using so their cost of money would be
higher than the city if the city used
bonds and use tax exempt bonds so uh
that's another question um as to whether
or not this is really the most
cost-effective way and then finally uh I
think that there is a real need to use a
transparent analysis of real estate
market trends and conditions now there
is a big real estate uh um data I'm
going to call it a data
um uh aggregation at the end of the um
packet that you received in July but
there's nothing that
contextualizes the Royal Crossing site
within the city's overall real estate
market conditions that uh the real
estate data is very general um and it
doesn't really test the potential for
the actual absorption of the products
that are being proposed for this site so
again there's no
uh kind of check and balances against
the developers uh projected um sources
and uses of funds so um uh I I would
propose a more transparent and uh
rigorous way of uh looking at those
Revenue projections so these were if you
will some of my key findings about the
district itself and then finally these
were the specific lessons I learned from
the I I I put forward that are from the
peer reviews so these are like if and
when the city does another considers
another tid District as I understand
that there's a possibility that the
Royal Crossing proposal would come back
is that I would suggest seeking outside
assistance in evaluating and negotiating
the tid um to optimize the tools
Effectiveness so uh the fact that
Hilltop Securities was not asked to
evaluate the efficacy of that Revenue
stream they didn't do it it wasn't in
their brief it's not that they're that
they they missed something it's just
they were given numbers and then they
did what they always do with them and
the staff may have missed this point but
it that is not
surprising understanding how a tid
District works and understanding the
complexity of the relationship between
the revenues and the costs is
complicated and in a city where you've
never done it to District before or
these are very uncommon in the state of
New Mexico it's it's very common to
require the expertise of somebody from
outside City staff to look at something
like this so um that's all I'm
suggesting here is that uh you uh uh you
get more assistance and there's nothing
wrong with asking for that uh and it
would help the city uh have uh an
outside perspective on what needs to get
get done um again I have made this point
over and over again is that cash flow
and the sources and uses of the of the
fund should have been looked at much
more closely and all of the um material
I read in the press and so forth and so
on people were really focused on the
size of the dollar amount of the of the
C of the um District itself and I agree
with that that's why I put forward these
scenarios that said we should cut back
on these and really be more aggressive
in negotiating but I also as I've said
again and again saw a huge gap in any uh
scrutiny uh on the revenue side um and
uh third to my point that I was making
earlier um that the city council uh uh
should whenever a tid resolution is
brought to you uh the first thing you uh
could or should be asking is what are
our policy objectives for for this
District what do we want to get out of
the district and what's our quidd proo
qu quo or what are the trade-offs we
want to make for giving up um the
increment um and how are we going to
really look at project performance in
terms of the benefits that we want to
get out of it um and again it could be a
a series of trade-offs that have to do
with going Beyond The District
itself um and again one of the benefits
of having the district is that it could
really unlock a lot of development um
that would give you more GRT the
question is where where do you want that
GRT sitting in your general fund or
potentially in the district's uh bank
account um which is which the city won't
control after about six
years um it seems to me I had another
point I wanted to make about this but
now I can't remember what it is so we'll
we'll come back to that I'm sure it'll
it'll come back to me
um uh as we as we talk about this um and
then finally um one of the most uh um
sort of perplexing um pieces of the tid
legislation is that uh in the first six
years the um the board the uh for the
tid itself for the district itself is uh
comprised of both public representatives
and the developers team but after six
years the property owners in the
district start to elect the board
members and those typically then become
a majority uh of interests that are
representing essentially the developer
um and then the accountability uh the
the the district's accountability to the
governing body is much smaller now um
there there is a supposition that well
that's okay because the
the number of projects and the cost of
the projects are really locked in so
then it's fine for the district to just
sort of do its thing but where that
becomes really sticky again is if
there's any interest in reprogramming
the money that's in the district and
making any changes uh in the
um uh the the costs that the district
could cover if the developer if the if
the district Ward is not interested in
making those changes the governing body
has no control over that um it's it's
sort of out of your hands now if the
district wanted to add more projects
they could they would have to go to the
governing body but the governing body
can't
require the board The District board to
uh either add projects subtract projects
or otherwise reprogram money so I think
that's a major constraint one other
point that I wanted to make I'm sorry
with Point number three about evaluating
the costs the benefits and the risks
um I want to talk a little bit about um
risks and and uh risk sharing here and
one of the reasons that I I would really
push the city to be um uh much more
involved in understanding the sources
and uses of funds is because um there is
a a risk assessment involved there but I
think that one thing that I would want
the city to understand is that um uh
there are there are different ways of
thinking about funding versus financing
the projects that are included in the
district um and a conversation around um
debt financing using
bonds um is an important one to have
because if you borrow money you get the
money upfront and then you can build the
increments of development of of
improvements more quickly which is one
way to unlock the future potential of
the project more quickly so borrowing
against the district is actually one of
the district's greatest strengths um and
so uh having a district with a longer
term and the capacity to borrow money is
something that should be considered but
it is again something that the city
should fully understand um I know that
there was some conversation about having
the district last for fewer years or
taking a smaller percentage of the GRT
Revenue to be dedicated to the um
District as opposed to what was proposed
which was the maximum amount allowable
under the legislation but I think that's
another thing that should be tested in
order to test uh the the benefits of the
project uh against some of the other
objectives of the project so in other
words if you do a smaller District um
but you say we're going to borrow money
up against it and then we know we get
all those Street improvements quickly
Bam Bam Bam and that allows us to have
more certainty uh and less risk around
whether the future phases of the
development would happen um then that's
okay um whereas if we say well we're
only going to uh allow the district to
exist for 10 years and we're only going
to um allow the district to capture say
50% of the GRT instead of 75% then you
really need to look at how much revenue
that generates and what that enables you
to to fund in terms of the this cost
profile so again really understanding
that relationship between cost Revenue
uh risk timing all those variables are
very complic complicated and something
that the that the council needs to
consider the governing body needs to
consider
upfront so with that uh sorry I'm going
to stop um
um and I'm going to stop sharing my
screen and I look forward to answering
your
questions thank you uh Dina actually um
it' be nice if you kept the screen up so
that so that the council can refer to
that if you don't mind probably the one
where you had all the costs would be
nice the one the 48 million yes there
here we go yeah let me let me put that
back into and I'm just going to ask you
a couple things and then I'm going to
let the council go from
there can you can you all see the slide
now I no not
yet
okay sorry here let me
see sure there we go okay good okay
where it says excludes omm do you have a
price for that or wasn't um I I remember
counselor sorg
asking um Mr White weager
about excluding e andm and he he
basically said that was a deal breaker
um do you have a price for that I uh
there was a price for it in the uh July
uh memo that you all received I don't
have it off the top of my H head but it
was a it was a big number um now I think
that the um some of the city department
heads felt uh good about having the
district absorb that cost at least in
the early years um because they were
concerned that the um that they would
that they would be required to do
maintenance costs without any increase
in Revenue um but I'm not sure that that
tradeoff is a one for one thing and um
so I think again the the issue around
operation and maintenance uh would have
should have required a much um deeper
discussion going back to the um
projections the revenue projections like
what are we what Revenue are we getting
every year what's what infrastructure is
going to be provided every year when
would our operation uh and maintenance
costs kick in but because omm was
excluded from the final um financing
plan that I was looking at in August I
didn't include it in this cost proposal
because this
is excuse me had this come up for a vote
in August this is the these are the
numbers you would have been voting
on okay so um I I seem to recall
something around in a neighborhood of
240 million is what Mr weager thought
that when it was fully built out it
would be about to that degree well that
was the aggregate cost that's not the
annualized cost well yeah the aggregate
cost and so now the other thing the only
thing that I I I seem to remember was
that was this your understanding that Mr
weager was wanting to get paid
reimbursed his um cost that he's already
spent um that was that yeah well at one
point yes and and and we were looking at
about 12 million give or correct but
again that cost was uh well that's this
um I believe that that uh is this
initial infrastructure
cost line item here um Dr Dr Martinez uh
put her hand up so let's just see okay
it which she has to say Dr Martinez
Council and mayor gr Martinez for the
record the uh there were two items that
had been uh requested to be reimbursed
and it was uh light uh traffic and I
believe a street those were the two
items um included in in the in the
reimbursement do you know what amount
that was Dr
Martinez Mr Mayor I don't recall the
exact amount um but I can I can get back
with you on
that okay
so Dena so what let me tell you what the
only thing that I was uh talking to Mr
weard about
was was that um I was of the impression
that he wanted to get reimbursed um I
guess a second column the 20 milon
633 and and um but with through a bond
we would actually do a bond and then
reimburse them that way was that your
understanding well uh I
think the district would have done the
bond not the city so I think you need to
make a there I I think that the idea is
that there's sort of a firewall between
the district and the city um so um I I
think that the way the financing plan
was written uh there were different
scenarios and the developer would have
had the discretion the district would
have had the discretion let me say not
the developer but the District board
would have had the discretion to decide
how these costs were were paid for would
it be um an upfront amount that the
developer would put out and then they
would be reimbursed with cash over time
or would there be a bond that would be
levied and then the developer would
uh uh and then the bond payment would be
paid back out of the uh increment
incremental revenues so I think there
were there was the in the details of the
financing plan um my understanding was
that that the exact mechanism would have
been up to The District
board okay and and so all I was asking
was before we reimburse him uh is that
we put a kind of like um a condition a
performance condition for example uh
let's say he does 50 million of this 243
million and I rounded it down to 200
million so that to me is is you know 25%
that we would just reimburse him 25%
after it hits certain Milestones 50 100
150 million 200 million plus then we we
reimburse them because without that then
lose all control if we if we reimburse
them everything the first uh off the
gate out the gate and without knowing
that the rest is going to still be
coming in that was all I wanted to do I
I'm not sure I'm not sure we're talking
about exactly the same thing here um
because um the way this would work is
that um that so these are rough cost
estimates right um um and the costs
could go up they could also go down um
so what the developer is trying to do
here is create an envelope of
cost um and then all the other costs
that are adding up to that 200 million
or whatever include financing
costs right they a lot of it is is a
Debt Service like you know you you have
to pay back your loan um so in terms of
reimbursement um if the developer puts
up the say I'm just going to take a
number here the $3.7 million and say
just in round numbers when the thing
gets built there's a little bit of
escalation and that's actually $4
million then there are different ways
that the district could pay him back um
but uh that he would be eligible to be
reimbursed for that cost and in theory
he would want to be reimbursed with
interest because he's put the money out
um so the performance would probably be
around the delivery of actual
projects um rather than just setting
this as an abstract cost like we're
going to reimburse you for 25% or
whatever that the performance measures
for however the payback if there were a
payback like that reimbursement it would
be tied to an actual cost for a delivery
of an actual asset
correct okay does that make sense it's a
little I think it's might be a little
bit different than the question you're
asking yeah no I I I get you and it's
basically the same
um it was pretty much similar to the
same okay okay and the those big
cumulative amounts really uh reflect the
financing costs yeah I was just trying
to get um more of a broad picture when
in my discussion with him and one last
thing and then I'm going to go to
councelor Vasquez one last thing is the
other thing that's troubling is that you
said about after six years the board The
Authority pretty much rest now with the
developer and that would cut out the
city and as I was mentioning and i' you
know I've told us to everybody I've only
been involved in one tid and that's the
cities and we're the we are the tid
members as well as a city council so
okay did you use a tid mechanism this is
I maybe um Dr Martinez can speak to this
point it's a tid same thing yes ma'am
okay okay okay so we have counselors
Vasquez benom Flores Gander
andita you mayor hi
counselor hello uh Dena thank you so
much this uh presentation was was truly
great I really appreciated um learning
from
you
this information and easy to understand
unbiased and very clear and honestly
succinct uh way for um a very
complicated issue and a very complicated
Financial mechanism that is hard to
understand so thank you in fact this is
probably the best presentation I've had
thus far uh on this project to date and
and so thank you for that um uh my my
comments um first are are actually to
that and um I think some of your Lessons
[Music]
Learned external analyst um be part of
something uh a project this this big and
and honestly this new for the city right
having not undertaken similar um tidt
efforts like this before um is is really
key I think part of what really muddied
the waters for me in the last kind of
discussion we had about this as a c was
all the competing interests were kind of
all giving us alternate information or
selective information and I didn't feel
like I got the full picture um and so so
this is really helpful and I I I I
[Music]
will analysis that's that you know in
the same in the same format that you put
uh you put forth this presentation here
today um and that we also get an
opportunity to ask for the data that
that we want because at the end of the
day I think as Council if we see a
presentation like this and there's still
a lot of questions left unanswered well
it becomes really hard if we're on a
tight timeline to then go back to the
consultant and say well it's missing X Y
and Z and why didn't we get this
information and so I think it's
important for Council to know um what or
to for Council to be asked what what
information they're going to want to see
out of this type of analysis before it
gets presented to us and then we have to
make a vote or a decision on this so I
think that those are some lessons
learned there
um part of part of what I am thinking
about and seeing this particular slide
is um I've always I was always of the
thought that if we could come to to
terms or if we could counter offer you
know a tid proposal or a tid project
that would be fair and beneficial uh to
to taxpayers that was a smart investment
on behalf of the city and that
accomplished the goals I think we set
forth in the opida blueprint um that I
would love to continue that conversation
and I would love to be able for the city
to counter off for something now if the
developer at that point says no way this
is crazy I can't afford this then fine
then they didn't meet the parameters of
what we as a city thought was a was a
fun investment um unfortunately I think
the conversation got so uh there was
just muding in back and forth in the
editorials and the radio shows and that
we couldn't have that conversation you
know people got angry emotions Got High
and um and that's not the way to do
business in my opinion
and Dina moving forward is um I don't
know honestly where the negotiations or
where uh the the communication with uh
this particular company or this
developer are at this point with the
city now but um uh based on this
information that you have presented us
today um do you feel that this is enough
information for the city then to to kind
of counter counter propose a tid
proposal um that looking at these
scenarios right where we would say you
know what we can Finance our own trails
and we can Finance our own parks for a
lot sooner and a lot cheaper than this
what this cost us absolutely no
operating in maintenance sorry you have
to build the parking lot yourself but
here are some of the things that we do
see value in and that would hopefully
help you you know get your development
off the ground um do you feel like
that's something got with the
information that you have that the city
can develop today no I if if it were if
it were me I would want to see that that
Revenue projection I would want to see
how much money every every year tied to
what the assumptions are about
development um because it's very
possible that uh and uh that for example
in particularly if the hospital goes
into the base year that the that the
project will uh in terms of its annual
cash flow and even its cumulative cash
flow will generate very limited funds
for the first three years or five years
or something like that and so then
that's where you really start to ask
yourself well gee uh do we want to pay
for you know Samaritan Drive or do we
want to pay it's it's it becomes more a
question of what do we think we can
afford as opposed to how do we get this
to be the smallest deal or the so I
think again that kind of what are the
what are the what are our musth haves
what are our need to haves what are our
nice to have um and how does that line
up with what the developer realistically
thinks he can offer in terms of
development and I think that that's one
of the challenges with the way the state
enabling legislation is written is that
it really it's targeted towards creating
jobs um and so it doesn't take that sort
of real estate
development um mindset and really build
it in except that it does say that you
should show your revenues annually but
my understanding is that that's that was
not um a factor you know you said it was
really debated in the Press but this is
really what was debated in the Press but
not like what could we afford sure so I
would I would not I I would say that
continuing to do um sensitivity analysis
to really get better uh Revenue
projections from the developer and one
of the one of the challenges is that the
way the GRT re Vues are modeled are a
little complicated but I think you know
you I would have wanted to have seen
that um you we call that sensitivity
analysis we do that all the time when we
do performas for development projects we
say well what
if and I would I would want to see a
what if a sensitivity analysis looking
at revenues and
costs thank you Dena um no I think you
provided us with a good um Foundation of
what we we should be looking at right as
a council when when uh and if we do get
more proposals like this or entertain
more proposals like this or or even um
prop you know do things ourselves um so
this is really really helpful um I I
really appreciate it sounds like there's
some key information here missing still
um that we absolutely need to have to
make a good decision on this and that
helps me get some clarity um on on how
if to move forward ever at all on this
and
so sounds like maybe we have some more
to do I think on on T reform at the
state level to show them that it's not
just jobs but it's you know it's quality
life it's all the Community Development
stuff that we really care about and
thinking about um some other projects we
want to undertake is also you know to
address that um uh underinvestment in
blighted areas and and how to do that in
more ways than just creating jobs so
right exactly and you know when um uh Dr
Martinez's staff is now more conversent
on this than I am but when when uh I met
with you all whenever that was in Octo
time coid time you know was gotten very
compressed but um I believe it was in
October when we talked about all the
different implementation tools and um
celissia gave that really fabulous
presentation she talks about them I
think it's the Metropolitan
Redevelopment districts right or the um
areas right and those also have a tax
increment tool associated with them but
the mechanism for deploying that tax
increment is different than it tid
District so that that might even be an
alternative to a tid district is that
you create an an MRA and create a bigger
area think about a different set of
projects so again um this was an
opportunistic District because the
developer brought the proposal to you um
which is what this is supposed to be for
the tid um but um but you could have
looked at this and said well gee again
is this what we really want to do do we
have another way to um approach this
same problem um so that's another
another uh
possibility great thank you so much Dina
and thank you mayor I'll draw my
comments and questions okay thank you
councelor Beno thank you um Mr Mayor and
and coun Vasquez and for you Dina for
sure you always leave me so impressed
and um I feel like
my brain is on
fire no I really appreciate it I mean
and thanks to councel Vasquez for that
context at the beginning of his
statements because I felt really
similarly you know as a new as a new
counselor I felt like you know on things
that aren't so you know black and white
with so much gray area like this this
I'm very very glad that we decided to do
this that we decided to ask you to do
this for us um you know I felt like at
one point the conversation was really
about
we were getting two very different
stories and perspectives and it became
about winning like which side is going
to win as opposed to what is best for a
community and what is what is the best
use of public dollars what is the best
use of this property that will help the
entire um City not just a particular
area so I really appreciated you laying
this out and I love scenario planning so
um this is this was very good um I I a
couple general questions though I had
for you obvious viously my only
experience with tid is the city tid um
but did I hear you sort of say correctly
or maybe what I heard you say was that
most tids are private developer
initiated I was under the impression
that the city tid that's the norm like
that's more common but are you saying
that a private initiated tidt is
actually more common that's my reading
of the state
statute
um uh is that the T the tid the tax
increment development district is is set
up um and again I'm I I did this as a
peer review but I'm not a a you know an
attorney in New Mexico so I might be
wrong about that but that was my reading
of the statute was it was intended as an
incentive um to leverage uh mostly
businesses so and you know the other
thing is that um you could see this
targeted as a to a company that wants to
build a building or um develop kind of a
a complex that would be more about job
creation um rather than doing some kind
of uh investor driven real estate uh
development so in some ways you could
see that you could say that the hospital
medical office building it would you
could sort of see that as being because
that's a job Creator and then the
shopping center is kind of a gray area I
would argue um
uh is that are those the kinds of jobs
you want in the in the city you know how
does that fit so um but again that's a
that's sort of a subjective again this
is a gray area and there's a lot of
policy decisions in here that are not
driven but just by technical
analysis yeah absolutely thanks for
thanks for saying that and honestly I
think to me that gives me hope right
that there is a way to do this like
there are responsible and smart ways to
be able to do this that have worked in
other areas but that it's worth it
looking at all of these things I loved
sort of the equation that you posed
around you know cost time risk Revenue I
think good note of that because I
thought that was very important yeah um
and then you also mentioned something
about um you want to make it as District
as large as possible in terms of dollars
right and in these scenarios you're sort
of saying like and it's also possible
have so I or is that not what you were
saying no I was saying that the way the
legislation is set up um either
explicitly or implicitly it could be
seen as incentivizing the developer to
make the district as big as possible I
see okay um because they're Shifting the
cost off of their project and onto the
district yeah so it's not their money
that's paying for this it's the city's
money right okay I'm glad I clarified
that I thought I heard you no no no it's
the opposite so that's why I'm like well
if it's our money right um then H you
know how much do we want to pay for how
much do we think we can really afford
right um and then the benefit you're
getting is the developer then invests
their money right right so um now
getting into some of these specifics I
um what is so I get that like roads are
are probably those are in the early
phases right like those are very
critical and important and so you're
telling us that these some of these
things at the bottom the ones I guess
I'm concerned about that to me feel
really important and that we'd want to
see develop right are some of the
community improvements like Park and the
trail system right why do you why do you
um think those are would be much less
priority well it's not that I said they
would be lower priority yes I'm sorry
that you okay they would be lower
priority in the
district that doesn't mean they're lower
priority for the city so I think that
right so the developer would want to put
all the early money into the things that
make their development
possible um streets you know Etc and
then the trail system and the park are
just you know those are like um uh
goodies for the city but the developer
you know doesn't care one way or the
other and so that's the other thing
about the financing plan and the I I I'm
I'm being probably too dismissive so my
apologies to the developer when I say
they don't care one way or the other I
think that the the trail and the park
improvements don't do that much
necessarily for the value of the
development project um and my
understanding is that those two in
particular were added into the cost like
between June and July or something like
that like there was a council meeting in
June and you know I'm just going back
and looking at the Powerpoints and um
that were presented to the council and
reviewing what information was shared
through those so For Better or For Worse
but that's my understanding is that the
park and the trail improvements were
added in as a request of the city
council but what what the reason that
I'm saying well maybe is because then
you allow the then the district can
collect that
GRT um um and they're saying well we
we're collecting that GRT to pay for
this stuff but they might not have
enough GRT to pay for it um so they
might collect say the total of those is
five six million six and a half million
dollar um and they might collect three
million and again it's sitting in their
bank account so they don't have enough
to pay for you know or or let's say two
and a half million so they don't have
enough to pay for either of those
projects completely but they're still
holding on on to the city's GRT right so
if the city had the
GRT instead of having it go to the
district the city might say well let's
do a let's do a um a park
Bond and pay for this ourselves and we
can use our GRT the way we want and we
can use it when we
want right so um so you know some of
these things that would be paid for in
the out years of the district are things
that you might want to take out of the
district because um that way you're
giving up less of your money um and
there's less chance that money would be
sitting in the district but would not be
you would not be able to
reprogram okay that's super helpful to
understand thank you very much um I just
have a couple other questions in terms
of um can you repeat your point about
the hospital and sort of what that
because right you said if the hospital
was to be included in the base here but
what's the alternative and then what are
the consequences of that right yeah so
because I never saw an annual revenue
projection I don't know where the
hospitals sat um and I was under the
impression that the medical office
building got built but then I was told
maybe not right it did not get built
okay great so um so the hospital is a
huge generator of GRT of um grocery seip
tax um for a variety of reasons and and
um so if it's in the base Year all of
that money goes to the city if the base
year is formed before the hospital was
finished construction was I think that's
the trigger is that if the development
is fig finished in the base year if it's
only finished in the base year it can go
into the
increment so then what that means is
that immediately all the GRT I'm talking
only about GRT because that's the big
benefit to the city the district would
collect both property um potentially
property and GRT but as you all know
property mostly goes to the county so
the GRT from the
hospital uh as my understanding is if
the um base year or 2020 the GRT for the
hospital would be in the increment but
if the district is formed in
20121 then the hospitals increment would
be in the base and not not eligible to
help fund the district so then my
question is how viable is the district
like what is going to be driving that
increment where is it coming from how
how much can you fund you know again
what can we
afford and that's this idea of sources
uh and uses of funds is what's the
source of the revenue and how are we
going to use it right so I guess the
question is for me then that hospital
itself is finished right like they had
opening and everything I guess the
question
is is the entire plan for that area of
medical buildings included in what
finished or not right so are they just
what's built would be included in the
base year so the future anything that
would be built in the future would be in
the increment okay I see um but what we
don't know is what the impact of having
the hospital be out of the increment has
on what the district can afford okay
so that Revenue piece is important you
can see why I feel like I'm beating a
dead
horse important horse um I get so my
only last question then is
um I was actually gonna ask you if then
and maybe this is a question for D but
also Dr Martinez around you know T is
that the only possible mechanism here
have we
talked to the developer about other uh
opportunities have they rejected those
I'm curious about tid and something else
like you said like the MRA um and have
those been discussed and if so you know
what what happened with those
discussions and if not then you know can
we have those
discussions Dr Martinez you want to
respond to that yes Mr Mayor uh Mr May
uh councelor bomo the when we started
the conversations with the developer on
this specific item uh we were um
functioning under the um evaluation of
potential incentives to make uh to meet
the objectives of Redevelopment for for
this specific area the uh the MRA
conversation as as uh Miss Belzer has
mentioned is an alternative uh we did
not um fully evaluate that option and
that is something that we could further
discuss with the developer we have not
at this point uh one really important
item for the Metropolitan Redevelopment
areas is that it requires a designation
as blighted and whoever is within that
District um it's it's a process of
designation
and whoever is within the district or
area um needs to be informed of that um
and some some community members may not
be uh supportive of that bided
designation and so that's that's
something important to consider as um we
research the the ways of uh mras and
other mechanism uh other incentive
mechanisms we learned that in theate
state of New
Mexico um Miss beler mentioned an MRA
with a financing tool embedded into it
and uh celissia um helped us with that
in in the last presentation tis are not
which is the the the mechanism tied to
mras tiffs are not um largely used in
New
Mexico um and so
the the
the limits on that are greater than the
tip the tid as as a whole um but MRA
it's it's definitely an option for this
area or other areas but as Miss beler
mentioned I think it's very important
for us to
Define objectives and then look for the
tools to help us get there which I don't
think that we had specific information
on this one um to help us uh with with
that
evaluation thank you Mr Mayor before you
go Dr Martinez let me ask you a question
yes sir this number scenario number four
the 12 million um what was was the
developer thinking that if we were to do
this that they would be able to provide
so much in so much in U new buildings
and jobs did they ever discuss that
didn't they didn't they think that they
were going to be able to build quite a
bit of you know ually in a in a complete
buildout Mr Mayor can you repeat the the
question okay
so if if any any of these proposals you
know because you notice they just keep
subtracting like when you go from the
first one I know they they talked about
they didn't really need this the parking
structure so if you look at scenario
number one let's just use that one just
to make it easier so for that 20
million wasn't uh the developer
suggesting that they were going to be
able to do quite a bit of improvements
over the number of years and if so did
they tie a number of jobs to
that Mr Mayor as uh Miss beler mentioned
uh before the state legislature ties uh
T to job creation and so there was a
projection of jobs created plus um an
amount of investment at the total
buildout you're correct do you remember
how many jobs they were talking
approximately Mr Mayor I believe it
was I I I cannot recall this specific
number think you can maybe look it up
and then while maybe before this
discussion ends we'll we'll know I want
to say that it was around maybe 1,500
but let me just say first of all these
scenarios are mine these are not the
developers scenarios let me just be
really well ironically he talked when I
was talking to Mr weard he talked
something about in that ballpark of
number one around 20 million or so give
or take and he said he didn't need the
the parking structure so that's why so
yeah and that the thing the question
you're asking though is a good one may
Mr Mayor which is um uh will we get the
same benefit for a lower level of
investment and that's the question
that's the key question right is are we
will we get the same yield uh for taking
less risk and giving up less of our GRT
and yeah we'll Circle back to that I
didn't want to take time away from the
council I just thought since Dr Martino
was there I was going to ask her that
real quick I was going to do some number
crunching and then come back later right
may excuse me mayor I have
it okay I'm sorry mayor PM what I have
the projection if you want I can send a
picture to you okay that'd be great
thanks I appreciate that so councel
counselor Beno that's okay I thought the
mayor was ready to move on but I wasn't
finished yet um yeah actually no you
know what since I sort of lost my train
of my train of thought here I'll just
say this last thing that I thought Dina
mentioned that I thought was important
around
um setting targets and goals for the
area that you thought perhaps we didn't
really have those and I think and I
think you might be right the opaka
blueprint I think has maybe some like
zoning right that's right it's a land
use plan and so I think I've also heard
a lot from community members in the area
about what they don't want but I haven't
heard enough about what they do want and
so I think for me this is a really
important sort of um conversation that
we need to have quickly so that if we
are presented with a new proposal and
have the opportunity to
renegotiate um that we have some of
those sort of um goals and aspirations
for what you know certainly mayor PRM as
the counselor for that District but the
community as a whole what do what do we
want to see not just well we don't want
a blighted designation we don't want
that we don't want that like that's not
necessarily helpful so I think it's
important that we have that that um I
don't know perhaps um city manager eepo
we can build um a negotiating team um
that can really sort of get at these
target areas and and set some goals for
what we do want to see in that area of
town um that's it from me Mr Mayor thank
you very much Dina thank you okay thank
you councelor we have councelor FLOTUS
and then mayor proam and then councelor
B St thank you Mr Mayor and thank you uh
Miss Belzer your uh peer um review
report was um quite
enlightening and uh I found that um you
were quite
uh uh what's the word um anyway you were
very detailed in the the failures in the
proposed uh tid by the U those
developers and yes it's true that the um
that the that staff had to go through I
and I this part is a mystery to I think
certainly to me and probably my
colleagues including the mayor uh as to
why everything was just so rushed it was
just so rushed and um this is the the
second T the city has ever dealt with
the first one is the one um the city
owned property and that sort of stuff
but so all of this came about in a very
Rush Manner and I don't understand why
um and I think that there were a lot of
uh a lot of a lot of problems and there
is no way there is no way I would ever
want to do business again or even even
think of having to do anything with uh
weart or weart and and his cronies his
cohorts um I thought that they were very
deceptive and that area by uh by by a
lot of people feel that it is
blighted but the blight is due to the
owners and some of those people in that
combination of of uh quote
developers um are uh have been the
owners of that property since um since
it it left the hands of the city so the
blight has been caused by the proper
owner so I I don't get that part but
that's their problem not ours well it is
our problem because it's it's our city
and our residents have to deal with the
blight and the dust and just the
ugliness but there are just so so many
things that you covered that um I I read
your uh report which um the paging by
the way uh the pagination I should say
is interesting uh you start with page
zero and then go with uh onto page one
and two and so forth but um in the
memorandum part which is addressed to
the city of Las Cruses
um you
um you noted immediately that the
developer was required to submit neuros
technical documents including but
limited to tax revenue projections tied
to development phasing for a 25e period
and itemized public Improvement costs
the tid would cover they were key in
these were key input puts the legal
documents necess for the
formation and um and apparently they uh
they were not
submitted um you go on to say that
um
for for for some re and this is a part
that you noted um on page one of that
memorandum which is really the second
page uh the last uh the last sentence in
that first uh paragraph therefore the
process of reviewing documents and
engaging in negotiations with developer
has required staff to Swift swiftly move
up a steep learning curve and um and the
the mayor and uh
and Council urano and I sit on the
finance elect
committee and it's called a finance
elect committee or something but at any
rate um Mr Mayor was absent for that
meeting uh but uh councelor Boma and I
were there and I I reviewed the
minutes and we asked the questions that
Miss Gus was able to
answer but um there wasn't a full
explanation is what the tid really
really was and and I and while I'm on on
that I don't think we fully fully
understand um you miss Belzer thank
thank goodness are trained um to look at
this sort of stuff day in out we get we
get this along with a million not a
million but a lot of other things that
were all of a sudden we're supposed to
become an expert and v on it and then
you know and then the onus is on us and
shame on me shame on you know shame on
the city council when we um can't fully
comprehend something and yet we're
required to make you know in a very
hurried and a very uh sloppy manner uh
arrive at
decisions I was against this from the
get-go because the the preliminary there
was some kind of a preliminary
non-binding quote agreement ree
agreement but the resolution that went
with it didn't jve it just didn't Jive
and um in my reading and so I want to
thank you very very much for this
there's just uh you know I I underlined
and made notes along my
reading and but I have to say that I I
believe that the tid in New Mexico was
was uh the enabling legislation went
into effect I believe it was
2006 the scuttlebutt around that was
that there was a legislator who really
wanted it to pass and and that's why
there's so many in the legislation and
that's why it has to be reviewed and I
think there might be a legislator right
now who is looking at at uh at re you
know re what's the word re uh wording it
amending amend well yeah amending but I
I really would like to see it uh
repeal um the price private private tid
the private tid in the final analysis
when you look at everything and
everything you have to look at bottom
line you have to look at the the impact
it's going to have on the taxpayers and
the way it's worded right now where the
tid um Can board can be comprised down
the road it can be comprised of anybody
that the property owners choose to to be
on that board and then they can just it
could just they can recap Havoc if they
want and um and I really believe um that
there that the uh that the developers
did not come in good faith I believe
that they were holding a lot back it was
evidence by your uh review that showed
that they didn't um they didn't comply
with the statute in certain areas um in
terms of doing this that and the other
which you covered and I have my notes
but
um anyway the whole thing I think is
terrible I think that the tid should be
repealed in so far at least as far as um
as the the uh the private U part
goes so um and it's interesting that the
statute does say though that it's for
areas that are blighted and where U
economic development is necessary and um
and yet you indicated that the the focus
is generally in areas that need Economic
Development we had Dr Erikson I don't
know if he's still attending this
meeting he was on earlier but Dr Ericson
wrote an article um for our local
newspapers and he said that the economic
development that would occur in that
area would be based on other businesses
that have moved into that area so it
wouldn't matter that you could measure
what the what the success of the tid
would be in so far as bringing in
Revenue because that revenue is taken
from another part of the city you know
and and given that we're one of the
poorest uh states in the entire country
I think we're the poorest right now we
we battle with Louisiana and Mississippi
there's always you know just that
struggle to be last in economics and
everything but um so um anyway and then
the so I anyway
um so I and I think that um yeah I don't
think it serves I don't think that and
then they you know the part that really
bothers me about the statute too is that
it allows the um increment the the
district you know governed by the board
which would be ultimately by the cronies
excuse me um the people appointed by the
poor choice of words um elected they're
elected pardon they're elected they're
not appointed but anyway well they're
well they're elected but they're Ed by
the property owners yeah the property
owners so you know could they could be
voting for themselves um but um so I I
think that there's just too many things
wrong with that
um and I and I think that there are
other ways that the city can use that
land or Property Owners can use that
land and if the proposed uh owners um
only will the only way will develop that
is with through a tid well then I think
they can just shop for another tid
somewhere else in the country uh because
they're not local anyway
um
so and then with um and then with the
onslaught of coid we're finding I
there's I think there's you know the New
York Times has an article almost every
day about how um the co has caused us to
work remotely
and that a lot of the uh brick and
mortar uh uh businesses are doing well
enough um well not well enough but are
actually considering going remote
because people are enjoying working
remotely you know they're saving wear
and tear on their their their minds
their cars and uh they you know they're
adapting to working from home so this
would probably be the worst time in
terms of economic conditions to consider
a tid especially here in lasus here in
New Mexico so
um so in other states I think you noted
you noted um was page four of the I
don't know page four because you gave us
two sets of readings here but page four
one of yours um you say that in other
states planned documents required to
form a tax increment District often
includes specific Community goals
associated with the district and
demonstrate how the projects the
district May Finance uh will further
these goals well none of that was set
forth in what was
proposed
um and um I I think that
[Music]
um
[Music]
um the I think that you you're one in on
page five middle I think it's the last
sentence um while the district cannot
change the list of projects it plans to
deliver without approval from the host
jurisdiction's governing body the tid
board can have considerable
discretion over when and how it spends
its money including deciding when to
borrow money using bonds or how to
expend revenues for operation and
maintenance expenditures which are very
broadly defined under the state statute
so again the state statute has its
weaknesses um and um there's a lot of
holes there and I can just imagine just
based on the preliminary interchange we
had with uh the proposed uh tid people
um Property
Owners um they
um
uh seemed a very disconnected or
nonchalant uh as to the needs of our
community and um and I mean they could
easily just say okay we don't have
enough money here let's that just you
know get a bond measure out and I just
can't imagine doing that to to our
taxpayers I mean I mean the tidt is
supposed to be doing that for them
already so again there's a a problem
with the statute and hopefully our
legislator legislators if they're not
listening now I hope they they well they
will hear from from from me so
um anyway I want to thank you I I you
know I can just go
Um um on and on I think that you're I
think it was the last page of your
presentation uh your your PowerPoint uh
where you went to all these scenarios as
to what should be eliminated I think
scenario 4 um well no well anyway um I
think what's very important at page zero
is that um the tid annual revenue
generation and development phasing
assumptions um the state statute
requires estimates of GRT and property
tax revenues which require a series of
assumptions those were all lacking um
and
um and then and then uh as you keenly
noted and stated um at least once or
twice today is that uh the Royal
Crossings royal royal Crossing tid
financing plan revised on July 14 2020
final does not include any annual
revenue projections so to me um it shows
that
um that there was a a a lack of good
faith in in what they presented to the
city and um and it was just downright uh
it was just downright un businesslike so
um
anyway I like very much your potential
Lessons Learned for Las
Cruses um I have uh exclamation
points and
um and I I especially like I mean if T's
going to be around um which I hope I
hope it doesn't uh I hope there's
legislation that just wipes it out
um uh number four uh is to
um number four evaluate the option to
have a governing body serve as a
district board the governing body would
be the city of lasa City Council uh
apparently the city's legal council
strongly advised against this option and
that is something that I would like to
ask our City attorney um as to why um
they advised against it and um and and
then you too noted that the rational for
this was never fully clear also because
of this was this was a developer
initiated tid the developer may not
agree to the governance structure no he
won't you are so wise in this because
the mayor the reason they backed out
right before the August 11 meeting was
because the mayor asked him asked him if
he would allow the city council to be
the governing board and he said no and I
think there were other you
know uh well I think there was a pile of
deal breakers but that was probably one
that just tipped the scale if it wasn't
being tipped at that point
um but um anyway again uh Miss Belzer
thank you so much um I really enjoyed
your thorough analysis it was just very
pristine very incisive and uh very
helpful to me um absolutely very helpful
to me to um it just reinforced my
um my uh my decision not to support this
tid and um happy holidays to you thank
you thank you for all your kind words
you're welcome and thank you
m thank you counselor so I see you're on
the fence on this yeah right I'm never
on the
fence I'm just missing May
Pro may I think it was councelor aea
stui next sorry okay I had her after you
but sure go ahead oh you did okay
go um thank you mayor and um Miss Bowzer
I really appreciate the analysis and and
um the information you've presented thus
far and being the representative of the
district um I of course want to see
development there and what I would
um would characterize that area as
blighted and many people so staffs may
be assumption that some people don't
characterize it as that is is maybe um
not the correct assumption I get
countless uh opinions weakly about that
place and complaints about the trash and
the weeds and what and and I think
merely it being vacant the way it is the
um the extreme amount of
acreage is it's blighted it there's
nothing there
and with the exception of the hospital a
very beautiful hospital with beautiful
roads to get to it but everything
surrounding it um to get there is um uh
undesirable in my opinion and so I could
understand and so for
me
um I I'm really um into a process like
what's the process what should we what
should we have related to if a developer
comes
um to us as they did are we prepared to
to do um and I know you have um s such
um wealth of knowledge and expertise
experience in this what takeaways what
recommendations other than the ones that
you posed in terms of process and how to
to so that I know you know that Council
felt very
unaware and I know the I met with the
developers twice and actually gave from
my perspective what I thought needed to
happen in terms of the conversations
that needed to be have with a number of
counselors be care to you know create a
rolling
Quorum you know all those things and and
and so I I had then I didn't hear from
them for over a
year exactly what I had felt was H what
could happen did happen
um and so just hearing from you um um
based on within the confines of of our
law our ordinances and I often felt the
chicken in the egg like you don't know
what PUD says but my constituents got h
a hold of that PUD and you know what
goes to um Planning and
Zoning you know all those kind of quas
things that really difficult to do your
job I think
that you can so interested to hear some
of that process sort of oriented things
right well that's a great question um
and one of the things that that Daniel
Hernandez and I asked the city this is
one of our very first questions was why
didn't you do the Pud
first um and I'm I'm I'm not sure I I
can totally recall what the answer to
that was but um I think that in an ideal
for whatever reason it did not get done
in an ideal world that would probably be
the place to start okay um and you know
you did the um abaka blueprint which
again is a land use plan right um but it
didn't have any um Economic Development
objectives associated with it so I think
that the questions I would have created
was well
um how does the how does this how do
this set how do the
projects proposed in The District in the
tid help us implement the apaka
blueprint and um so that would be the
first one of the first questions I would
ask and then what would we need to
include more detail in the Pud that
would help us really narrow in on is
this the street configuration we think
we want um is this the use that we think
we really want um um and it's been again
it's been a few months since I looked at
that blueprint plan but in my um opinion
it was very high level very very general
wasn't very specific so and I think it's
a little I think that the community
process is a little tricky because um
what you want the community to tell you
like the the this is a financing Strate
the tid is a financing strategy it's not
a visioning document right and I think
that that's a really important
distinction and that you are kind of
going from the big visioning document
which is really what the apoda blueprint
is to something that's got more
specificity in it which is what the Pud
would have provided um and that's really
where the public should be weighing in
do we do we want these uh do we are we
happy with this kind of land use
approach um are is this the does this
configuration of streets really work um
and then really having some
understanding of what are the existing
INF infrastructure barriers in the area
that prohibit this development from
going forward um and do we really need
Samaritan I'm just pick I'm just reading
off the list here because honestly I'm
not super familiar with any of these
projects that wasn't my again my brief
um to come in and study them but you
know did are these again are these need
to have are these nice to have um how
are there if there if there things we
really need to have are they in our
capital improvements plan have we how
are these prioritized in other plans for
the city um and if these are relatively
low priority improvements relative to
someplace else but you could get them
built if you agreed to this tid is it
worth it to you you know I just think
that that thought process again a little
bit more transparent thought process but
it would it in my opinion it would have
gone from the visioning document to the
Pud and that would be kind of the public
engagement process and then and then
this question of well is this where we
want to invest our
resources in this area and I know it's
really hard because citizens who live in
this area and as you said the dust and
the blight and all that kind of stuff by
the way the definition of blight is
probably spelled out in the state
legislation and it's not um object it's
not subjective it should be objective
there should be and you know the
investment in the hospital might already
start to work against making the case
for blight I don't I don't know but
something to think about um in any case
um which might be a reason why the tid
is better than the right so it could be
that you know again if you said well for
$12 million I'm just you know again I'm
just making this up now but for $12
million um we could get the key
infrastructure pieces in place these are
not things that we had in our Capital
Improvements budget they're not things
that are in the
uh Metropolitan planning organization's
budget but with if we give up1 million
of our um Revenue plus you know the
interest rates so the interest that over
25 years whatever that cumulative number
is um it's worth it because we will have
gotten this paid for and then out of
that we will have gotten however many
jobs you know that number now not me but
um you know what I'm saying like you
might say well this is this is you know
relative to all the things we need in
the city this might not have been the
thing that came to the top but you know
for for this much money um and and you
know when you talk about the cumulative
amount of money of how over $200 million
or whatever if you were to contextualize
that against your total projected GRT
over that same 25 year period it might
be a fraction it might be a very small
number so if you look at that number
just as a standalone number out of
context it might you know have a
tendency to light somebody's hair on
fire but if you look at it as you know a
percentage of the total City's total
expenditures um and what the city would
have to get up in give up in order to
get the 1500 jobs a new grocery store in
this area etc etc it might again
properly contextualize it might
absolutely be worth
it um and then the developer is
responsible for floating the bonds
they're taking on the and and again
they're the the cost of the bonding the
um um the all all the costs are built
into the tid so it's it's a it's not the
cheapest way to do this stuff but it
might be the most expedient right right
right so I just you know I think all I'm
um suggesting is that the CD go into
this with their eyes wide open and just
really look at the full I I think this
is really the problem is that the that
the full kind of spectrum of of benefits
and opportunities against sort of
uh all these options were never fully
weighed and I
think you know could be done differently
that's all yeah so sure so
I I was gonna excuse me for interrupting
after you finish and before mayor protm
starts Larry Nichols has his hand up he
probably wanted to jump in and help
respond to one of your comments
May yeah that's that's that's basically
my point I I mean I guess I'm I'm hoping
that I'm helping you understand the
process so I think that the public
process C is really around the the
visioning and the kind of the details of
the land use program and then the the
the minutia of the funding and financing
and what the tradeoffs are should be
something that's transparent but that's
not the kind of thing you go to the
community and you say well do you like
12 million or do you like 14 million you
know it's sort of like um but I think
people should definitely weigh in um and
the and the like what the trade-off
things are like what do we gain like
what do we want to get out of this this
I think definitely should be something
the community should weigh in
on absolutely thanks Dana okay
Larry Larry Nichols yes uh thank you
good afternoon everyone Larry Nichols
with Community Development uh and mayor
and uh councelor gandra mayor potim
gandra and councelor bomo uh pay
particular attention to some of the
questions that um and comments you were
making regarding um the app blueprint
and the the V vamora project they're
all um the the I it needs to be
mentioned that
um Miss Belzer was saying well we know
we needed to have a little bit better
idea about specifity about the uh Aida
blueprint um we hired a consultant a
half an Associates to develop the appid
DOA blueprint we spent about seven or
eight months in doing that we had over
seven or eight public meetings asking
people in the neighborhood what it is
that they wanted to see developed there
uh and we developed the master plan for
that uh the thing that was missing in
that was the the financing
mechanism and that's what brought about
the the tid proposal um I I suspect in
fact think we can find out this quickly
that there are ways uh of financing
vehicles for a project of this nature
other than than a t and maybe those need
to be considered but I I wanted it to be
um uh brought forward that the idoa
blueprint did take into account what the
surrounding neighborhood and the
constituents in your District wanted to
see happen there they wanted Trails they
wanted Parks they wanted retail mixed
retail they wanted professional offices
to support the uh hospital and the U and
the same for the vamora it was more less
commercial and more of a uh of a desert
type of uh activity that talked about
the history of that location so uh uh
mayor I just uh Council I just wanted to
mention those few things that uh there's
about a I think it's about a 54 or 55
page document on the appid DOA blueprint
that does talk about the land use and
what the citizens uh in that area wanted
to see happen to that 92 acre parcel of
land thank you Larry um I I appreciate
the clarification I I I participated in
that I think um really D know from my
perspective you're saying this this
Vision right then we have to break it
down into some D like some
measurements priorities and how do we
negotiate that out using the fiscal tool
right the F Financial tools right um and
I don't know that that is something that
we have for every single blueprint or
plan that master plan that we that we
have I I I it I want it instead of to
sitting on a shelf right to be ready and
that the city is in the driver SE of
Pardon Me In terms of either doing a
request for an interest are you know RFI
R
um or or um um you know that that we go
looking for developers to fit that to
fit that need whatever whatever that is
um the other the other thing is as mayor
asked about the you know I still have
all the paperwork from the last time so
I was running through some of the the
stuff and you know there's some
obviously you know I'm not an economist
and it's not in my area but there was
the um they um they made mention of the
implant
economic system right that they use to
then develop the what would be the
employment implications indirect and and
direct and again as to ccer lotus's
point some of this stuff is smth
information to us and I don't know quite
how they derive from
3,985 jobs um 4,000 of those are
one-time employment impacts and when you
think about that what kind of jobs we
can deduct you know from Senior Living
nursing home you know skilled nurses
doctors Hotel retail pad restaurants
grocery hospital and then medical office
and then just a original office but I
know that Dr Ericson was concerned about
the movement outside of that District
into that when it doesn't suit us so
those things are are from my perspective
and and really I'll say this in closing
I think we need um a lot of training m
as as as a body body policymaking body
around um the tid and what what you know
the best use for that is but also you
may mention bonding Financial tools
those things we should have that that we
understand what is the best mechanism
when staff comes to us and say this is
what we think well is it I mean we I I
don't know because that's not my area of
expertise it's sure good but not sure
that that's the right
mechanism coner flus talked about the
attorneys right our attorneys
specifically well we hired an attorney
not our inside attorney right like not
Jennifer Vega Brown and others
um it from her from her unit or her
Department if you will um and and so
those are who were used to having those
conversations these are very lofty very
Cable in nature you know it's I read it
like three times in such a short amount
of time that that's hard to regurgitate
so I just want staff to be mindful of
that um and also helping us and I would
recommend let's get some training
there's trainers I understand through
Sharon Thomas there's people
specifically from DFA that are that that
do have this expertise that do do
trainings for counties and
municipalities um and we should do that
but I also a little before that maybe a
few months before that a tid resolution
us right and and it's sort of like I
felt like okay sounds good but like I
want there to now that I have a little
bit of um experience under my
belt din know
what I I would like to see metrics in
that resolution and can we do do that
even though the state says this is what
it is right this is the law this is what
you follow but I um as a home rule we
can add
metrics we expect any buildout to have
25% um affordable
housing this is what we expect out of
this particular one and any other sort
of of building that you do related to
that to include you know and we expect
that of that you know we want to see an
increase in these many jobs at this
salary I I I can you give me a little
bit of direction on whe I'm on the right
track of yeah yeah you I think you are
to some extent so I think metrics would
have been helpful too I think some of
those metrics would have come out of the
Pud so for example the requirement for
inclusionary housing would have come out
of the Pud um the mechanism although the
tid um legislation does mention
affordable housing it there is no
um uh like real mechanism in the um in
the way that tid is structured to
actually Finance affordable housing I
don't even think it's an allowed project
called out in the legis I'd have to go
back and look um and I do know that
staff did talk to your housing people
little bit and everybody went oh this is
really interesting but we'd have to
really think about how to make this work
so um so I think that that's one of the
uh another question is if the community
has a lot of um performance um metrics
that they would like to see come out of
Redevelopment in this area not all of
them might be delivered by the tid
itself right yeah so housing
affordability is a big one um because it
might require that the city do some kind
of a a housing strategy for the bigger
area um because if there is reinvestment
in this area could boost property values
other places it could increase people's
property taxes I mean there are a lot of
sort of Ripple effects this is what
we're seeing in Santa Fe where I'm
working now on the Redevelopment of the
Santa Fe College of Art and Design is a
lot of anxiety about if a lot of
reinvestment goes into that What will
what will the ripple effect be on sound
and that's not the problem of the tid um
nor is the tid a good tool for
addressing that nor is that a reason not
to do the tid or not to not to try to
incentivize development in this location
um and as
um as um I believe it's your um economic
development director just pointed out um
you you the city had called this place
out I mean you already invested a lot of
money in doing the opida blueprint and
so forth and so on
so the tid in some ways is a logical
Next Step it's not you know that part of
it wasn't crazy I'm sorry to you know
it's getting to be late in the day
everybody's talking anyway that part
wasn't unreasonable that this is an
implementation tool and as I said
earlier if you could if you could do a
better analysis of the sources and uses
of funds and you could contextualize the
numbers kind of in a bigger context you
might see that this is a very this is is
a very reasonable way to go yeah um so I
think that's what's
really um it's not that the tid is a
good idea or a bad idea it's just having
a better idea of how well it actually is
going to work to deliver what we want
and right so and you know and if it if
it's done in are there other things that
we could do in conjunction with this and
again in terms of your to your earlier
question about
process this is where I think the Pud
would have been a natural Next Step yeah
yeah I I I just kept feeling if only if
only I saw the Pud first why didn't we
do it and I don't know if it's because
it's against like I said all those all
those requirements and the Quasi
judicial um position that we find
ourselves right after Planning and
Zoning I I wasn't sure but I I I again
um I I think there was so many Lessons
Learned From Myself and the rest of my
colleagues I hope From staff's
perspective you've given so much
information and things to really um
continue to contemplate right moving
forward I'd like to see us um um
re-evaluate our resolution related to
the the the tid and have some metrics um
some absolute very specific performance
measures that we will give you this
money at this 25% completion you know I
think well let me let me back up and say
that the performance metrics might be on
things like jobs created
or whatever on the performance metrics
around the funding and
financing this is where I think we don't
have enough information to to really say
because again I think that it's what
what do we think we want and what do we
think we can afford right uh and what do
we want to invest um and so to some
extent if you agree to do the tid you're
gonna have to sort of take a leap with
it's a partnership with the developer
absolutely right and so um um so I don't
think you can say well we're not going
to give you anything else unless you hit
this
25% whatever because there's going to be
uncertainty and so I think you need to
think this is part you know your kind of
earlier point about really being
educated about what's the right
mechanism yeah right so I think that I
think that that would really be getting
into what is the what's the financing
strategy here and is this what we call a
pay as you go in other words um the
developer is going to put out the money
and then they'll be reimbursed out of
the funds as they get
collected um but they have to present a
reasonable reimbursement request and the
reimbursement you know you'd make a
that's where you would have a
performance agreement about you know
what at what point you might make these
reimbursement
requests um but you're you but you've
already agreed on basically a Cost Plus
contingency for the actual project you
would do a similar agreement for each
individual project you know it would
really be tied to again the the
um the delivery of the actual asset yeah
yeah thank so I think we want to be I
think we want to be careful not to get
too General about some of these things
and not try to negotiate uh a a you
know a broad something that's very broad
when it actually probably needs to be
pretty detailed I absolutely and I think
that's why I'm really getting that is a
little more detailed would probably be
helpful in these circumstances you
mentioned about a transparent analysis
and the real estate market conditions
didn't feel that that was quite included
in that and what do we look for right
counselor like what what are we looking
for what are um you know sort of the red
flags that oh this is a good thing
moving forward well what what I was
looking for and what changed in the
course of the presentation of the
material um
um is uh when were what what were the
things that would be Market driven so
like the hospital they knew that there
was demand for that and they built
it um is there demand for the medical
office building I don't know how how
soon do we think there would be demand
um I'm guessing that they do think there
is near-term demand but I think what
what what moved around where I saw that
what what was the red flag for me was
that in the revenue project ection that
I saw from January they had housing in
an in early phases and I think during
particularly during coid there's a huge
amount of demand actually for
housing um uh and so okay that made
sense to me but then in the mo in the
financing plan that I saw in August
they'd shifted housing out to a later
development and they had um um I think
some aspects of the retail were coming
sooner that didn't from a market
perspective I wasn't sure how that
worked but again I never saw how that
tied to their revenu so I wasn't sure
like if we had a different phasing if if
if the phasing worked out differently
than they expected what would that mean
for the money that the district would
throw off and let's just again when we
want to understand what we can afford
versus what we need and uncertainty and
risk understanding when the uses come
online and then how they generate
increment and how that
accumulates uh either as a cumulative um
pot that's used to reimburse or as
something that covers debt um Bond
repayment every year whatever it is you
just want to have some sense of
certainty and um um and and again their
numbers were very aggregate for the city
and you know um again I'm not a complete
expert in Los cruus but my understanding
is that the city is on fire not not here
not in this location so to look at
aggregate numbers that look really good
and then say Oh that applies to
everywhere is also not correct this is a
much trickier market location where
where your Greenfield development is
happening so really good point yeah Dena
so shouldn't we have had that expertise
from The Hires we made um financially
and the outside attorney to give us that
information oh I don't you know felt
that we got or that they I so I guess
what I'm saying is is that I would
recommend that if this comes to us again
that that staff be very deliberate in
what they tell us how they tell us the
numbers of of folks that they include in
this that each person has their piece to
um present so that I know that every
staff member department head has had
their their say
whether it's positive or negative sure
we want this all of us want it we we but
we have to protect the city and and and
I never felt that that or or very rarely
did I feel that that was happening we
had one or two presentations if
questions were asked like I'm asking you
um it depended on these outside folks to
initiate raising their hand right and
answering those questions and that
really never happened and I think every
one of our department has to include
those outside influencers have a role
and a
responsibility to play in their their
present presentation right yeah I mean I
I think um you know again In fairness to
staff uh you could be a really seasoned
professional uh having worked in New
Mexico for many many years and be really
good at your job and still never have
seen a tid District before
yeah right so um but I would also say
that um um you know different the of the
of the Consultants that were hired as I
understand it you had an attorney and I
don't know any I didn't I never spoke to
the attorney um I did speak as I said
earlier to your um a a financial advisor
who again ran the ran the feasibility
numbers on the
district um and he raised he he raised
some concerns but it was sort my feeling
always was that they were sort of asides
on his part because he didn't feel like
it was what he was actually asked to do
so I think that part of um H the trick
of getting Good Help Is Knowing uh what
you don't know or a asking the right
questions and I I would just say you
know that you could have you you might
have gone to the financial advisor and
said does this look right to you you
know like did you know he and he did
actually to his credit he did raise the
red flag a couple of times but it it's
not clear so I don't I'm giving a very
murky answer there about what kind of
expertise you need but it's specialized
it's not and I agree with you that every
department head should and could weigh
in but it's still there might still be
some gaps and so if you don't look at
the whole thing so you could have said
you could have hired the the financial
advisor to say take a good close look at
these revenues does this make sense
right that was not what he was asked to
do so ah okay that's my understanding
yeah no I I appreciated the effort that
sta please don't get this as I'm overly
critical I just I just felt like
um you know you do the best that you can
under the circumstance and um I don't
recall any attorney or or uh
Economist or or um um lawyer a lawyer
and or financial say ding- dding red
flag this this and this this is what to
consider this is what this means that's
my challenge here and we need to be able
to be transparent forthcoming y sure we
know agree everything in front of us so
that we can make the best choice for I
completely agree thanks Dina I appreci
may that those are my questions and
comments sorry about that counselor B
sty thank you mayor um and thank you
Dena and to my fellow councellors um for
asking really in-depth questions and um
really going through I think most of the
angles that we have been able to see
here today um so with that I'm just
going to make a quick uh kind of comment
in the one thing that kept kind of um
bothering me when we had our very first
meeting and we've touched upon it so I
just think that it's something we really
need to consider in the future when
we're looking at different types of
opportunities what we're trying to do
with it um and that does come with the
workforce at the very beginning of the
documents that we were shown a lot of
The Hires and the jobs created were that
in construction which we knew were it's
going to be a one-time event um and then
another large portion was that with um
the uh retail and those type of items
and we know that even before coid we
were going to have to have some serious
discussions on what those Industries
look like because they are changing on a
global market that we have to for
that's and so I really I brought up
those concerns in the very beginning um
kind of wondering what um what
information and demographics that they
were going to be using to validate this
type of information that they brought us
and I didn't really get answers quite at
the time um the other thing I posed
since my district has a hospital that
has old buildings in it that are being
used um what type of uh loss are we
going to see in some of these areas and
now I potentially have a blighted
section with a very similar demographic
and makeup that this new section is
going to have and so how do we with that
and kind of balance the two as well
because may be giving to one um but now
we have a new area and it doesn't have a
tit in it and now even beyond that with
that hospital now I'm G to have Aggie
Uptown right next to it that is going to
be made into a similar structure so
there's going to be a lot of competing
interests and so I think really having a
um thorough analysis on kind of those uh
Community impacts for the different
districts and potential um loss uh would
be very beneficial
you so and that's about it so thank you
mayor and thank you again Dina I really
appreciated your comments great thank
you I mean I do think that's a really
interesting point about really looking
at the develop again in this idea of
what do is it worth it to us do we want
this is the developers coming forward
with a
proposal um for something now and you
may say well we don't really think we
need another hospital I think some some
of that was attempted to be addressed in
some some of the material um that was
put forward and but that that kind of
thinking I think is important some of
it's subjective it's not easy to answer
that um yeah but I think it's a really
good point
yeah very good okay councelor
sword councelor sword May yes just be a
little
patient okay no
problem make sure you didn't fall asleep
or
something okay well while he's getting
things put together Dr Martinez there he
is go
ahead um I've been listen of course I've
been listening to everything you guys
are saying except for the last minute I
had to make a quick trip to the WC um
one of the things I kept hearing is
that uh there
about a medical office building I don't
know what you all think but I've been
there and I've seen a medical office
building it's like two stories or
something like that um maybe this you're
talking about another one but the only
one additional building that they were
going to build there um was planning to
was some kind of physical therapy
building so as far as I know the phys
office building is
built uh I saw it uh secondly um the
hint that this tid would pay and or be
useful the funding for it would be
useful to build something that the city
doesn't have in a CIP list
um well I'll say this uh when it comes
to streets the city doesn't pay for
building new streets that's not what we
do as a rule this would be something
brand new that we've never done before
um yeah the only thing we pay for are
some arterials that are missing or
redoing streets that are not finished or
um uh are not built out to City
standards so that's that's what I wanted
to bring out
mayor
okay okay well I appreciate that
counselor okay so let me just uh let's
see Dr Martinez were you able to find a
general idea of what number of jobs that
we thought after the full buildout that
is not just initially but you know I I I
seem to remember that there was looking
at uh over $200 million of new
infrastructure over I don't know 25 30
years but did we oh looks like EO has
his hand up EO did you want to jump in
on
that and we were just looking for the
number of jobs the total jobs that that
the developer thought they were going to
have after the whole buildout you know
15 20 25 years
later mayor I was hoping to just to make
a comment I just had a couple of
thoughts I just wanted to to share but
so I'll turn it over to Griselle to see
if she has that information if that's
what you're looking for right
now yes I would uh if she does if not um
mayor Pam sent me something and let me
just use this as as an example doesn't
have to be anything exact
so I I read in there
approximately maybe after the full
buildout maybe 39 Oh there she is Dr
Martinez
Mr Mayor uh technology this is grella
Martinez for the record um so we had
over a thousand jobs and about $250
million of
Investments okay so the developer was
thinking that over a period of time that
that they could bring in a thousand new
jobs give R take correct and and the
assumption was that um about 15% of that
was going to be uh pulled from other
areas uh from the city I'm I'm sorry
15% correct okay so then net would be
850 so correct from the
forecast so if we were to take 25 21
million divided by
850 let me just make sure let me make
sure that's right right so that's
850 oh no I forgot something 21
million divided by
so why don't we just make it kind of
simple can we go back to that to that uh
screen that had all the streets names
the
Samaritan yeah um I was just going to
put up
this chart let me share my my screen
again can you see here's the employment
numbers right so here's the total the
direct indirect and then here's my oops
sorry wrong chart wrong
project there it is yeah that one okay
so let's just make this kind of simple
or or since it's about jobs and job
creation so I took the 21 million
scenario number one divided it by the
the 8 50 new jobs and so why couldn't we
just say okay if you want to build
Samaritan Drive which is 875 and you
want to get reimbursed for it um so you
take the the
874 500 divided by the
24,750 so that means bring in 35 new
jobs and we'll pay you the and we'll
reimburse you
that so in essence we're we're
reimbursing for for the for this amount
but it's almost like we're paying um a
developer I mean a a real a a economic
developer someone to bring in these jobs
these are new jobs not jobs that were
transferred over that many of us were
worry about but new jobs that um that
are new to the city and that's not easy
to do and then that way there puts the
onus I mean because if they're really
and this kind of a uh matches to what
mayor protm was talking about this is a
measurable event here um you want you
want to get reimbursed for this
particular Street or drive then you just
use this as a factor and and get it
completed and when you bring in 35 new
jobs you get you get reimbursed for that
project that way there it's kind of like
um if you want the full amount that you
were asking then you bring in the 850
net new
jobs so kind of simple we don't have to
go through the tid we don't have to go
through any of all oh right yes that
would be outside the tid yeah we just do
it we just do it like an economic
development uh issue and I think that's
something there that the anti-d donation
Clause allows us to do if we use uh
different monies for that to bring in um
uh new jobs and you know just something
to think about so anyways EO you wanted
to say
something
[Music]
hi mayor council can you hear me
yes thank you mayor you know I just uh I
think you're already moving forward to
to some deal points so um but but I just
wanted to make a couple comments if I if
I
can uh as you
know uh this this there's a lot of a lot
of this that Happ well all of this
happened before I I came and took the
job but uh when I got here I was I was
grilled by everybody I was grilled by
people in the community business
Community even the media my first
interview here about uh about the tid
and and what was wrong and wanted me to
play you know play play Monday
quarterback um you know I think I gave
him a weasy answer just about everybody
just this weasy answer that uh you know
everybody sort of sort of just
distancing myself from it but I I do
have some thoughts that I I I want to
share um as we're going through um so I
I'm very familiar with with tax
increment deals now we we don't do tids
and we call them we call them pids in
Utah we don't do them
either um and I tell you one of the main
reasons we don't do them is uh usually
City councils are opposed
to uh relinquishing their authority to
abort Board number one uh that makes
these
decisions uh the second thing is there
there are some some concerns uh when
we're just talking about GRT even we're
even if we're doing jobs uh we're
looking at
jobs the problem is is when we don't
know we don't have a leakage study and
we don't know what's what's leaving or
what we're
retaining uh even if we create new jobs
we could just be diverting GRT money
from other areas of the city and so
therefore uh you know putting the other
parts of the city at risk and so usually
when tax increment deals are done and
from my experience you focus on property
tax because that's truly that's real
increment that comes through right
that's value that wasn't there to begin
with uh the other thing the only reason
we would look at sales tax or GRT in
this case is if there were cities if we
had this Urban spraw where you had
cities that were back back to back just
as large as we were and there was
leakage and and we were going to try and
get that back into the City and so there
there are a couple of concerns just from
the tid in general just just from just
from using tids in general and so we've
been we've been looking at different
ways I know I know our economic
development team been looking at
different ways to to come up with a plan
if this came forward again looking at
grip looking at uh Tiff using the MRA to
to to apply a tiff uh and so I I I just
wanted to to mention uh the other thing
other thing I wanted to mention is
um having having uh drama and duking
duking things out is not uncommon in in
deals like this um I've been I've been
in negotiations where um things may or
may not have been thrown across the
table
uh but then we duke it out and we come
back and we work a deal I mean that's
that's just Economic Development right
you just just duke it out um now
sometimes it's past the point of of
reconciliation or or or coming to a deal
point but from what I see from an
outsider coming
in uh I think we can get a deal done and
so um looking at what we want as a city
and I think protecting the interest of
the city another thing that uh and I
know I know every most of you Shar these
same sentiments I know the mayor was
pretty strong against a bond right I I
really I really was opposed to any bond
that came forward that that funded
anything private uh because that's a
form of pre-performance as opposed to
post-performance and I didn't want to
take risks with that and I know I know
that was a real sticking point for the
mayor and many of the council and so I
think if we have these parameters in
place we put these parameters in place
like I said we we can go back I know our
economic development team have been
they've been looking at different ways
to come back with this without the tid
um we we talked about this being rushed
the first time again I'm I'm an outsider
looking in I know sometimes these these
things move fast and and there are Bas
you know you got to get the base year uh
in order to get the increment and so you
gotta you got to approve this by a
certain period of time and so sometimes
they get they get you know you you come
through I understand that the staff has
been working back and forth with the
developer previous to that but I I guess
my point is uh mayor and Council if you
want a deal to get done you can give us
a CRA let us go get a crack uh take a
crack at it um we could try or if this
is something
that um you know I've heard both both
mix today if this is something that you
don't want
look at if the tid is something that you
don't want to look at at all then I I
say we throw the tid out and we come
back with uh with something other than a
tid that can make the deal and I think
you're already a step ahead mayor you're
already talking about deal points
without the tid so to moot point on my
part but I I just feel like I I needed
to say that I I came in talking big
about Economic Development right that's
one of the my main focuses and I've been
grilled by by everyone I come in contact
with and I feel like I I I kind of need
to sh sort of sort of the assessment
that I've made since I've been here but
I definitely know we can we can make a
deal we we can get a deal done uh if if
you want us to take to go back I know uh
I've personally walked I've parked there
and I walked around uh that that U after
mayor proem Gand and I visit that
hospital I went and I looked at it
myself it's a very important part of our
our city and and the development there
thereof is is something that will
definitely benefit our city so um we're
hoping as staff that maybe we can get
some you know if this is if this is if
you want us to go back and move forward
on something that we can come back with
we certainly can do that um but again uh
mayor and Council I just just kind of
wanted to share those thoughts and and
I'll stop there or uh for the sake of
not not continuing to ramble but I I I
did want to share that with you thank
you I I appreciate that EO I uh and I
I'll I'll you know I'll gauge from from
Council here but you know I I don't I'll
be very candid um the tid worries me
there's just so much information and
there's so much legislation I mean you
know this thing about six years the the
it can turn over I don't know if we
necessarily need that I think this
amount here and what they're asking for
is something that we can if we shift it
to Economic Development and bringing in
jobs jobs new jobs I don't think we need
that tid uh I'm interested now I'm not
saying just Do the deal I'm interested
to hear what the parameters are and
bring it back to council and let's let's
let's uh weigh it you know what I mean
uh I'm interested to see that to see
what exactly it is what what uh could be
proposed and what could be done you know
I've uh you know I don't want it to just
sit there vacant you know it's a nice
piece of property I think it is an
important part of the of the area of the
city but I don't want this is what I
don't want I don't want I don't think I
want the tid I don't want to reimburse a
developer for infrastructure that they
put in because then what are we going to
do with the other developers that have
done it as well uh but I do want to see
jobs new jobs not transfer of jobs not
not people moving from One hospital to
another you know new but I want to see
new people coming
in and um and new tax roles because that
you know we we get 17 cents on the
dollar every time that they put in
something
new and I'd like to see that so if you
think you can come up with those
parameters I'd like to see what what we
have to say and then Council have a
chance to now you know huddle up and and
see exactly how it's going to affect us
and how we can make it work and and and
what are the downsides if any what are
the upsides I think that's I think
that's and plus it gets a chance to see
you and your team in in
action for sure thank you mayor and and
I will say you know that focusing on
GRT uh reimbursing GRT back in
perpetuity I I think you really run the
risk of diverting resources from other
parts of the city and so any deal that
has to do with
GRT giving back to the developer to
reimburse as opposed to property tax uh
you're going to run the risk it's going
to be hard even if it's jobs even if
it's uh the indicators are jobs uh if
you're pulling jobs from other side of
the city because they're going bankrupt
it's going to be difficult to to to to
to follow and so I think if we could and
again I don't know if they'll you know
if if this is something they'll be
agreeable to but I I do think a focus
mainly on property tax uh would be some
the parameters that we we stick to um
certainly not not bonding right um and
and putting the city at risk through uh
you know through through any debt is
something that I parameters that I use
in any deal I I I I would never like to
do that so well I'm interested to see I
I think Council would be too I mean
especially if there's no downside to us
we don't give away our Authority we
don't bond anything you know and we
bring in new jobs that's what we that's
what we give that's what we give money
to mavita to do that's what we do I mean
that's what we'd like to see and then
you take care and by the way it wasn't a
blighted area it was a nice area it was
a golf course and it's un fortunate that
no one took care of it in the meantime
but I mean I know that's not your your
problem but anyways I just thought I'd
share that with you because it wasn't
always like that it was a really a nice
place okay well let's see what the rest
say um we've got two Council that please
keep your comments uh somewhat limited
you know we've spent a lot of time on
here uh we're we're I think EO is
volunteer to do this and be a good
chance to see how him him and his team
work so you councelor bomo thanks mayor
um yes appreciate that EO um you jumping
in and saying that I think that's really
important I just wanted to comment on
counselor stor point about the hospital
councelor s you are right there is the
hospital and then another building
however there is plans to build out
another like women's clinic a rehab
place and then I think there's a third
um type of medical building I can't
remember um there's two now but you but
there are more planned yeah yeah right
yeah so I just wanted to clarify that
and then
um yeah honestly Mr Mayor I think for me
the reason I was disappointed you know
several months ago wasn't because it was
a great deal or whatever it was mostly
because we didn't have that space to
negotiate and to figure something out
and and so for me I'm I'm personally
open to that negotiation I think that
after today though dena's presentation I
am a lot more clear about um Frank
how scary this this tit is and I think
that that's it's a very big deal and I
um you know that's why as as the
conversation went on I I kept thinking
well is the tit even the right place to
negotiate and so I'm I'm okay if we
start elsewhere um I also think though
that we should put some measurables not
measurables but some like what kind of
jobs I want to make sure that our jobs
that are paying people well that are
helping people build wealth
um and that are improving our quality of
life okay good M Pro
Tim yeah mayor thank you I'm I'm in
agreement for uh Mr peely to go back
with staff and put something together I
just don't want us to forget right it's
a part of the original Town site there's
been a lot of it is a very important um
um place and um what I was feeling like
as as the developer presented
information that they were leaving the
surrounding area behind right here
you're going to do all this development
in there and get reimburse with no real
um improvements anywhere else and so I I
just don't want us to forget that it it
needs some rehab um renovating all
around that alaka area to include Madrid
and there's some really um I think
businesses that would appreciate that
and residents around there that would
appreciate um that that help for sure so
and then to your point you know the the
streets are built there are streets
there Samaritan and heart and they're
all
built to get to that hospital frankly so
oh yeah but I mean new jobs then want to
get reimbursed bring in new jobs that's
new jobs but not just any job right high
paying jobs we really build up from that
hospital the health um I think Arena
there's a lot there I think that could
be said about that so yeah thank you
mayor ccor sword did you have something
yeah I just wanted to say I agree uh
let's let the city manager peely uh
negotiate a deal
period Well I want necessarily negotiate
deal I mean put some parameters and
let's see what they have to say you know
I I I think it's important I mean we owe
it to of course that's what all part of
the deal oh okay all right didn't want
you to give him cart blanch just no no
no EO you you have another comment yeah
mayor and one thing I I do do want to
say to just as uh again I coming in
outside outside coming
in uh I I do have a little different
opinion on on uh you know the work
that's been done up until this point I I
do think that
uh staff Council I know the council uh
was wise and and uh if you don't if
you're not satisfied that's not uncommon
and mayor that's not uncommon to to to
just say you know what throw it out and
we'll we'll I mean that that you're
acting in the best interest of the city
from what you know and I I will say from
what I understand I I've I've gone back
just to understand the
background um I do think staff has
worked really hard I mean I I really
have a different opinion of some that uh
I think they've gone through um back and
forth with the developer and presenting
and it's not an uncommon process uh to
get us to this point uh at least from
not from my experience and it's it was
in the right of the council to say you
know what we don't we don't get it right
now we're we're not going to we're not
going to move and we'll take six months
we'll take a year uh but we we'll throw
it out and and again uh when I go back I
don't want to make it make it seem like
I have all I'm coming here and I'm a
hero Save the Day uh we do have an
excellent uh Team right we do have an
excellent economic development team that
is competent and they are working on uh
they're working on incentives right now
they have been looking at incentives
just in case we were going to do the
deal and so they've given me a list of
tools that are uh specific to New Mexico
that I I had no idea about um that I'd
be glad to go back and so it is
certainly going to be a team uh effort
uh mayor and Council as we come up with
some parameters to to to present back to
you it looks like your new ACM that you
hired has a pretty big background in in
Economic Development so there's a lot of
there's a lot of weight I mean there's a
lot of pressure on you guys and then
you've got Dr Martinez and Dr padis so
you need to come back with something
that sounds pretty decent for sure for
sure thank I would think uh councelor
Vasquez thank you mayor um uh thank you
um manager city manager EO for for
comments I uh can agree more I think
when it comes down to it one of the
reasons I also wanted to continue
negotiations is I mean we're looking at
an infill area of the city right
something that we've all decided we want
to prioritize for redevelopment uh We've
created a blueprint uh we have an
investor who's interested and that
doesn't happen very often let's be
honest right for some of our master plan
um things that we have uh right now and
and then we have eepo and we've kind of
given him a mandate um to to bring
Economic Development opportunities to
the city and create jobs so if we can't
do it here then it's going to be near
impossible to do it anywhere else um you
know considering all the factors that we
have at play setting this place up for
Success being in such a central location
having already some investment having
streets developed uh residential
neighborhood right we got customers all
around you know for you know any
potential retail or other types of uh
employment that exists there so uh I
appreciate eo's comments and continuing
this conversation um rather than just
saying you know that we don't want this
and then let's just leave it alone for
another 10 or 15 years and have it
become more blighted so I I just want to
put that out there um totally supportive
of all other options but I think this is
a good case study for us to both let EO
be successful and do his thing what we
hired him to do um and then uh our staff
also you know to use all the talent that
they have have and to fulfill these
priorities of both fulfilling the applea
blueprint uh bringing in new jobs and
redeveloping uh an inner part of the
city um where a lot of developers just
aren't going right now so just wanted to
provide those comments as well and fully
supportive to to exploring all those
options thank you mayor thanks counselor
so there you go EO so I guess if I was
to sum it up it's like hitting the reset
button so let's let's just forget about
the T don't even think about that
anymore now we'll just we're focused now
on economic development see what you can
see what they have to say about that I
mean now we're talking new jobs um and
if you want to throw in some land there
at the west west M West Mesa industrial
park that's good with
me be hard to get rid of that housing
housing yeah okay all right great well
good I think that's
a majority consensus so um thank you for
everybody and and Dina thank you for
your presentation really helped us a lot
and and uh it allowed us to to refocus
change our our our Direction and and go
after Economic Development instead of U
how to just get how to reimburse a
developer for stuff that for for
infrastructure now it's a whole
different ball game and like I said we
hit the reset button and now we're just
going to focus on that and uh we
appreciate it very much great thank you
I want to say the privilege has been all
mine and I do I think you do have great
staff I I really want to Second what EO
said so um I think all the pieces are
there it's just how to make it work
thank you great okay thanks everybody
take care bye bye you too happy Holidays
happy holidays all right so our last
item is uh 3.3 Contracting issues IA and
due process Jennifer Vega
Brown City attorney good evening mayor
and city council
um we're going to just limmit it to just
IA right now because that alone is 15
slides and we'll just reschedule the
rest because the Contracting is a big is
a big one so gotta all right okay um I'm
going to ask Christine to share her
screen I'll introduce the topic she is
our city clerk she is our um designated
custodian of Records so she'll go
through a lot of
that
this is part of um the information that
we'll be presenting to city council
periodically regarding some of the
issues that you all have to deal with um
as you know the inspection of public
records Act is a big one for us we have
a lot of requests and we fulfill a lot
of
requests you can advance thank you so
you will find the inspection of public
records act in section
14-21 of State statutes and if you would
like me to for that to you anytime just
let me know and basically this the
statute reads that every person has a
right to inspect public records of this
state with very limited
exceptions um there is a very important
quote that um is used when describing
public records access to public records
is one of the fundamental rights of Ed
to people in a democracy even where
there is no statute a common law right
to inspect and copy public records
affords members of the public the
opportunity to keep a watchful eye on
government you can thank you um in New
Mexico the New Mexico courts favored
disclosure of public records and over
recent years the legislature has
continued to expand IA um it's also been
expanded in great deal by the courts by
the New Mexico Supreme Court and the
court of appeals you will see um as
there used to be about I believe 10
exceptions to IA that has been narrowed
down to about seven and one of the very
broad exceptions has been eliminated
almost completely
eliminated you can advance thank
you so the law states um and you can
find this also in the Attorney General
compliance guide and we can also provide
copies of that to you or links to that
um anytime you need it just let us know
um the legislature has recognized that a
representative government is dependent
upon an informed
electorate it is the public policy of
the state that providing people with
information is an integral part of the
routine duties of public officers and
employees one of the an important thing
about the ACT is that it does not
require a public body to create a public
record we are only only responsible for
the records that already
exist I'm going to let Christine take
over and I just want to emphasize the
city clerk's office is in the legal
department and Christine is our city
clerk and she is our designated
custodian um of Records So Christine if
you want to jump
in
apologies I was having trouble
[Music]
unmuting can you all see the PowerPoint
I know Barbara said she was having
trouble seeing it so I want to make sure
it's not black no I can
see okay okay I just wanted to make sure
before we get into it um so public
records are defined as documents papers
layers books Maps tapes photographs
recordings and other um documents or
materials regardless of physical form or
characteristics and so that's all
maintained by our office um the city
clerk's
office so some of the exceptions to the
inspectional public records um things
that we don't release are medical
records letters of reference um
concerning employment matters of opinion
in Personnel files um student files
would be for um lcps
law enforcement records that reveal
confidential sources or methods um
anything that is part of the
confidential materials
act Trade Secrets or attorney client
privilege information as well as
business plans of
hospitals tactical response plans that
are um developed by our Police
Department projected person identifier
information this includes the last four
of social security number
um everything but the year of birth um
account information those are just a
couple um and of course anything else
that is provided by
law so when a person requests a public
record from us this is made by um an
oral or written request and this is made
to the designated custodian which would
be
me the written requests shall include
the name address and the phone number of
the person making their request this is
so that we can contact them regarding
their request um as the city clerk's
office we also ask for their email
address because a lot of our records are
um electronic so we can act give them
access that way um the written requests
shall be identified with reasonable
particularity um an example of this is
somebody requesting to see city council
minutes versus somebody who requests to
see city council minutes for the month
November 2020 that's specific and we're
able to narrow it down and get them the
records that they
need so when a person makes a request
they don't need to tell us the reason
why they're making the request they can
request whatever it is that they
want and the procedures that we just
went over um are only for written
requests they don't um apply to oral
requests but as a good practice within
the city clerk's office we do um apply
the same rules to an oral
request so as a records custodian the C
city has designated me the city
clerk and in return I have designated
the records manager to process all
records and the records manager for our
city is Lisa Hada sure that you have all
gotten wonderful little emails from her
requesting stuff um and that's who that
is that's uh the records
manager so as a custodian we can charge
reasonable fees for copying up to a
dollar our office currently charges. 50
cents a
page we can also charge for cost of
downloading the documents onto a storage
device um and for the actual cost of the
device so if we put something on a jump
drive we'll charge them for the jump
drive the price of the jump
drive we can also charge for actual
costs of transmitting the
request
so if um we receive a request and it is
not for the correct custodian we have to
forward the request to that custodian if
we know who it is and also notify the
requester so for example if we get a
request from the county we are going to
forward that request to the custodian
for the county and also let the
requestor know that we have not that we
have sent their request over but also
give them inform the notification
information so that they can contact
them themselves regarding their
request so as the custodian we also have
to separate exempt from non-exempt
information exempt information is
everything that was listed above um we
go through and make sure that none of
that is available for the public um and
then we also have to State the reason
why that has been exempt um we do that
by listing the statute um and the
exemption that we have
used so when we receive a record we have
to respond as soon as
practical
or um which is usually about 3 days and
then um we have to make sure that we
have given them a written written
response within 15 days so if we cannot
give them a response within the first
three days what we do is we send them um
an email or call them and let them know
when we believe that their response will
be available for the most part we are
able to close out requests within 15
days we don't need to um expand it
beyond that but there are times when we
have to and that's when it's called
excessively burdensome or
Broad and so as long as we are making
contact with the requestor we are able
to um extend the request until we have
all the information available for
them
so the city's
process we have um an electronic method
for requesting information it's called
next request and it's available on our
City website we also accept requests via
telephone which has been common place
especially during coid we also have a
designated email address as well as we
will receive them in person when our
office is
open so the records man manager receives
all the requests she logs them into the
next request system no matter what
format we get them in then she forwards
it to the department that needs to
respond to the
request once the department responds
they provide the records to the records
manager the records manager then reviews
the information determines if um items
need to be um redacted or are
exempt um and then sometimes she will
have to have the legal department review
it to make sure there's nothing in there
that is confidential or
privileged so in the past year we
started to keep track of the number of
hours that we're spending on our request
in alignment with our Peak Performance
um we've also asked the police
department to um kind of keep track of
this amount of hours that they're also
spending because that is where we have
the largest amount of requests coming in
from so we have two full-time staff that
works on ipper request and also we have
an additional staff member who helps out
whenever the load becomes too large um
Lisa Hada who is our records manager and
Kristen trino she is our other staff
records Clerk they work on them
full-time as well as Patricia Connelly
who works on them whenever they need
assistance
the legal department has an attorney who
works on them and that is Rob Cabo and
So Lisa and Rob work very closely on
these every day as well as lcbd has
designated staff who does review their
requests before they give them to Lisa
and then she does further review and
makes sure that everybody gets their
requests in the timely
matter so last slide we just wanted to
show you some data about the number of
requests we've received in the past
three
years you can see in 2018 we had
821 we had um recently implemented our
next request system a probably
about six months prior and so we were
able to pull a full year of data for
2018 to show you 2019 you can see that
it Rose to 1,68 requests for that year
and for 2020 as of this morning we had
1,041 requests so we believe that we're
going to hit the same Mark as last year
or maybe go a little bit
over and with that I just want to say
that um my staff works very very hard on
the Ia request and I appreciate
everything they do they do a fantastic
job I have Lisa Hada here with me um and
we also have robao on the line and
Jennifer and I are available for any
questions thank you
thanks Christine if you need me to do a
couple of IO requests to get over that
number just let me
know we'll
pass counselor B the
stud thank you Marin thank you Jennifer
and Christine um and apologies if this
was mentioned unfortunately it's it's
late and I had to um get some peanut
butter and jelly sandwiches for a couple
kids when we're doing this um but given
the amount of records that have to be
kept and held um how are we doing on
Space um for those records and what are
kind of the next steps for
[Music]
that mayor Cil I have Lisa Hada here
with me and she can answer that for you
let me just kind of turn my
camera counselor's mayor hi uh actually
there is a resolution that is going to
be taken to you guys for approval at the
beginning of January excuse me Lisa I
don't mean to interrupt but I know you
guys are in the clerk's office but can
you just state your name oh I'm sorry my
name is Lisa Hada and I'm the records
manager um I'm taking a resolution to
council at the beginning of January
which will allow for us to destroy
records that have already met their
legal retention we try to do that once a
year uh we skip 2019 for various reasons
so we actually have double years uh for
this resolution but that's usually how
we control the amount of information is
once it's been approved uh for
Destruction we can destroy all of those
that have met their legal retention and
that's how we control the volume of
Records thank you thank you um that's
all the questions I have for this
evening thank you thank you counselor I
think we probably should end it soon so
that you can go make dinner for your
children and we don't want to keep them
eating just sandwiches so good with that
is there any other
questions I think it was pretty clear
and succinct how you do it and I don't
know how you guys handle all that
paperwork and all those emails and all
that stuff that you have to look for but
thanks for doing it I know that's a
tough job and I know that's important
though like like you talked about this
is what democracy is about they want to
this is their government they want to
keep an eye on things and um you know
especially keep a big eye on councelor
FLOTUS and make sure she's doing what
she's supposed to be doing
mayor okay may if I I may I just want to
say that um our city clerk's office
works extremely hard um some of these
requests are thousands of documents that
they have to review and especially our
police um requests that come in they
have to review body War camera and they
have to redact it so they might have to
sit there and watch um three hours of
video um at a time so they work
extremely hard and I I can very I say
with a lot of confidence we have the
best City Clerk in the
state yeah
good
congratulations uh councilor bet St did
you have another question one extra
followup I think I hear the kids crying
wanting something
else well thank you um I do have a
question regarding um that of some of
the police items that we do see um I
know that there was an issue that we
have where um you know people post those
videos online um in different ways are
there any laws or regulations on people
um making money off of those videos um
and is
there what kind of protections because I
understand needing uh having the video
but it does seem it does bother me that
people are then using it to uh you know
make money off of YouTube by posting
those
videos
uh mayor and city council I'm not aware
I don't believe that those would be the
type of um information that is
copyrighted because it's it's a public
document and so um I don't believe that
there is there are some the law protects
the identity of victims of crime um the
identity of juveniles the law was just
expanded so some of that is reduced but
um we do have to go through and protect
identity of certain
people thank you thank you mayor mayor
protim one short question I notice 50
cents a page uh to copy whatever
document how do you work with folks that
can't afford that and still
maintain it's their right and democracy
and making sure they have what they
need mayor councel Gand um a lot of what
we have is electronic and so we will
scan it and email it to
them and in the event they don't have
access electronically they're calling
you because you said right increase in
calls how does that work mayor counselor
um sometimes we can answer the
information over the phone um sometimes
what we do is we'll have them come in
and look at it um we've also had them
take pictures whenever they can't afford
so there are various ways we work with
them um to help them get the records
that they need thank you so much
Christine I think that's um what I was
looking for thank you and when the
library is open they can use the
internet mayor and Council that what the
mayor said is exactly correct we um and
our library staff has really gone above
and beyond on a few occasions and
provided um assistance in using the
computer um I know that Rob and Lisa had
also worked with a couple of people
where they didn't have the correct
software and they helped them download
it so um our staff really does go above
and beyond to help people get the
information they
need thank you mayor okay thank you um
Jennifer anyone else who uh doesn't
believe in and letting the children go
eat okay I guess that's about it is that
it
Jennifer Yes mayor thank you okay okay
well good good meeting thank you for
everyone um with that I'll entertain a
motion move to adjourn
sorg second by
who councelor B comoo I can hear that
one okay motion made by councelor Sor
second by counc B comoo uh Christine
will you call the role please yes this
is on the motion to adjourn the work
session canor sty yes cancer
Vasquez yeah he took off he went to go
eat his peanut butter and jelly
sandwich councelor boml yeah councelor
Sor yes counc flus I can't answer I'm
too hungry
coun yes mayor yes okay we're adjourned
I won't leave uh we're adjourned it's
5:33 pm and then we've got our agenda
setting meeting after good night
everybody good
night Merry Christmas Merry Christmas
you're not going to meet us at our
meeting next Monday Council yeah I will
be here okay I want to get a head start
okay
good okay mayor I'm ready when you are
oh okay all right this is the agenda
setting meeting for December 31st excuse
me December 21st 2020 city council
meeting number one non-c consent one
non-c consent two consent two consents
three consent three consents four
non-consent four non-consent five
non-consent five non-consent six n
non-consent six non-consent seven
consent seven consent eight consent
eight consent nine non-consent nine
non-consent 10 non-consent 10
non-consent and 11
non-consent 11 non-consent there's 12 oh
there is one this is the one they
dropped me off what's the they gave you
the wrong one they dropped this morning
H what
um I have number 11 as an ordinance to
repeal replace chapter 15 is that is the
is that's number 12 that's number
12 oh my goodness oh my
gosh okay so I have number one as the
resolution authorized in the city to
accept various budget
items yes and number two I have as a
resolution supporting participation in
ARP yes and number three I have a
resolution authorizing to accept various
grant grant
Awards um um yes number four I have
resolution approving contract for the
city uh fire station three yes number
five I have a reso uh for a design build
for the the jogging biking trail yes
number six I have a reso for transfer of
liquor license liquor license yes seven
is reso for professional service
agreement yes eight reso for extend
purchase of electronic fuel cards yes
number nine reso authorizing the
settlement with donana County on
AMR
yes 10 is the res reaffirming the city
support for various legislative
priorities yes and then 11 we added
one okay so you added 11 what did you a
it's a resolution approving the
Roadrunner trans public transportation
agency safety
plan okay well let just put that in on
second okay perfect all right great
thank you have a good night okay you too
good
night
for