foreign
[Music]
okay good afternoon everybody Welcome to
our special work session of Las Cruces
City Council today is Monday June 29
2020 approximately 1 p.m before we begin
if you please join me in the Pledge of
Allegiance please
pledge allegiance
the United States of America and to the
Republic for which it stands one nation
under God indivisible with liberty and
justice for all
okay we're gonna have our pet of the
week and I believe Jennifer Martinez
from our Communications office is going
to introduce
that's right thank you mayor and Council
and Jennifer Martinez with the city's
Communications office and I would like
you to meet knight uh let me bring up my
screen here and share him with you
slideshow there we go okay
night is a handsome fellow who is sure
to make great company for many Summers
to come his unabashed demeanor and
excited kisses are the perfect remedy
after any long day unlike his name
Knight is sure to keep your days happy
and bright you can complete your family
and adopt him today the Animal Service
Center hours of operation are Monday
through Friday noon to 6 p.m and on
Saturday and Sunday it's noon to 5 p.m
and still the off-site adoption events
are canceled until further notice there
are still limitations at the Animal
Service Center which includes online
adoptions you can go to ascmv.org
adoptions to take a look at the animals
that are available again summer weather
and pets this week we could see
temperatures anywhere from 99 down to 95
degrees or back the other way
um so we're going to need to remember to
never leave them outside for super long
periods of time if you can provide them
water and shade often keep pets from
resting on concrete groom them regularly
exercise when it's cooler like in the
evening or earlier in the day and and
provide cool or frozen treats once again
the Communications office likes to take
this opportunity to remind you about
covid-19 and today we're going to talk
about testing locations there are more
than what I'm showing here on the screen
but this is a good start if you need to
get tested you can go to the Department
of Health Public Health office 1170
North Solano they are open on Mondays
from 11 I'm sorry 8 to 11 A.M on Tuesday
Wednesday Thursday and Friday they're
open from 7 to 10 a.m and again on
Tuesdays and Thursdays they're open from
4 to 7 P.M in the evening so if you need
to go after work you can do that you
will be asked to call in advance to make
an appointment the number is
528-5263 and again it is for a drive
through appointment and you can see the
other testing locations if you go to our
website
covid19lascruces.com thank you mayor
thank you
okay so uh we have one item on the
agenda
and that's this is the Royal Crossing
kid application
uh work session number 20-019
PDF so uh basically this is how I'd like
for this to proceed so we're basically
here from staff
then the applicant
uh the council they don't ask any
questions of what they've heard so far
we have two presenters Connie and Eva
each with 15 minutes a piece and then if
Council after that Council wants to ask
any questions and then others I believe
uh mayor poor Tim Emeritus Sharon Thomas
Steve Fishman Jeff steinborn
commissioner Sean Reynolds and at that
time I'll look for some uh public
comment that I believe councilor Florida
said was emailed and I'm tracking down a
few and then Council can ask questions
of of these uh individuals and then
we'll open up for a full discussion as
to what we plan on doing
so with that
I'll turn it over to Mandy Gus who's
going to start this off
mayor
Martinez I'm actually going to start and
I'll pass it on to Mandy okay I'm sorry
and she will be sharing her screen to
make it easier on technology
okay and for those of you who are new
joining us if you wouldn't mind uh
keeping your phones or computers on mute
until you're ready to speak also there
should be a little button if you have to
ask a question of some sort I'm going to
ask though if you wait until after
presentation and then uh I'll cue you in
for for questions
all right
well good afternoon everyone my name is
Griselda Martinez your economic
development director I'd like to
introduce this topic and give you the
very general items on how we started the
conversation on this uh tid Mandy if you
go to the next slide please
Mandy are you there
yeah I thought I saw her earlier but
yeah
Maybe not maybe she's not there
my apologies let me load my computer
okay
she's off the Mandy's no longer on the
participation list participants list
she must have got kicked out and is
coming back in looks like she's back on
okay let me share my screen so
um
do this stuff
I think it's on your computer okay if
you if you need you can come over here
all right
foreign
now you can see the presentation correct
yes all right so this is a very broad
um capturing of the material that you
will be seeing today uh we wanted to
make sure that we provided a very robust
um context to how this project started
what the process we follow up to this
point from
um questions from city council and
public input we're going to be talking
about the best suited projects and then
we're gonna be within the tip process
that we have in adoption of the teeth
um we're going to be walking you all
with uh with that in as a framework on
what we have done
because we want to acknowledge uh some
of the questions that came about talking
about what would happen What would be
the risks to the city we have a slide in
which we talk about what we what would
go wrong uh and what would be the burden
to the city uh we're also going to cover
the tid versus then land use and that's
going to be an important distinction
during this this presentation on a
number of the questions that we received
are pertaining to the Pud which is a
separate process from this one
um so we need to keep it separate from
this presentation and then we're gonna
walk you through the timeline from where
we started to this point and then next
steps child city council decide to move
forward with the official intent for
adoption
so um your your city economic
development department has been tasked
to look for opportunities for our
community and this has been our goal
since the creation of our department and
we are very diligent in protecting the
city's interests and also looking for
opportunities within that context for
this very specific project we have
provided an objective analysis of the
project including the creation of
policies that were not in place that
allowed us to work through the process
thank you
oh looks like you got frozen there
can you can you hear me yeah I can hear
you now yes okay thank you mayor
um financial analysis of the of this uh
opportunity
and also we are facilitating getting the
information to city council for a
decision
so in in light of the recently adopted
Elevate Las Cruces the economic
development department has had was
heavily involved in the review of the
drafts as they came through um through
uh the the leading group as staff and I
want to highlight a few of those that
are um that we evaluated that were
aligned perfectly with the proposal of
this project the first one is
cp211 and it's to utilize creative
incentives tools such as state and
qualified opportunity zones to Spur
development and reinvestment the second
one is cp212 is to educate developers
investors and community members about
development tools as such as tax
incentives including teeth and qualified
opportunity zones number three is cp223
which talks about establishing tits that
are consistent with the recommended with
recommend that
recommendations of community adapted
plans such as the Apple DACA blueprint
the Apodaca blueprint is in the proposed
area for this state
also to further align our efforts with
Elevate Las Cruces we talk about infill
areas and there are a couple of elevate
Las Cruces goals that talk about that is
cp921 which is to enhance infill
policies to encourage more development
activity in the infill area and number
two is
ce123 which is to partner with property
owners of vacant land for opportunities
so in our previously defined Economic
Development strategic plan within Peak
Performance we highlight throughout
Department the number of new jobs and
the amount of investment in our
community so I want to expand on this
one speaking to some of the questions
that we received speaking about economic
based jobs and the reason why economic
economic based jobs is so important is
because those jobs bring money into our
a community that otherwise would not be
here so from that perspective this
private investment represents a large
amount of outside Capital coming into
the community that would stay in our
community as as for their development
I also want to speak to opportunity
zones our department was heavily
involved when opportunity zones was
originally created at the federal
government and the purpose of this
Federal program was to create to
incentivize private investment in
distress areas and so the process that
followed that program was that we worked
with our New Mexico Economic Development
Department to recommend these areas in
the city that were distressed but also
had neighborhood plans or projects that
would be ready to move forward shall
these census tracts be selected so
um the Apodaca
blueprint was one of the key elements
that we utilize to recommend that area
as an opportunity Zone and we currently
it's it's one that out of five in our
city that is eligible for
um
credit incentives to private investment
I want to make sure that
um this is clear this is only private
investment and the city is not involved
in any process along this this
opportunity zone so with that I'm gonna
pass it on to Mandy Gus and because of
Technology issues she's going to be
speaking from this account so
thank you
thank you hello mayor and Council I'll
meet you guys with the economic
development department
um I'm going to talk to you again some
of these slides are probably familiar
but I'll be going over them again just
as a reminder and a refresher to all of
us
um so what we're talking about today is
a tax increment development District
which is allowed through the state of
New Mexico's tax increment for
development act and it is a tool where
local governments can invest in public
infrastructure and it is a funding
mechanism where we we set up the
boundaries of a tid and then the funds
that go into that
can be used for construction operation
and maintenance of public infrastructure
again it's very important to point out
that the only thing that the money in a
tip can be paid can pay for is public
infrastructure
um and that public infrastructure is
generally within the boundaries of the
tid or for the development
um of what's going on inside that tid
and the Investments are made with the
increase in property taxes or GRT that
come as a result of that development
so here's
um just a chart to kind of see what that
looks like there is
um before the tit is created there will
be a baseline taken of existing
um property and GRT taxes to the city's
general fund and that Baseline doesn't
change over time the city always
continues to get that and so as there's
development in that District that new
revenues are generated and then a
portion of those new revenues can be
reinvested into the district
um and those again can be used only only
for public infrastructure the tax rate
Remains the Same as it does elsewhere in
the city but it's the The increased
Revenue again it's only that increment
that portion in the green on the chart
um that can be used back for uh the tit
so as I mentioned there isn't a
financial burden to the general fund the
increment happens as a result of this
development so if there is no
development there there is no increment
um and so that Baseline always has to be
met where that money will continue to
come to the city and then as it grows
um as as development happens as property
values increase so property taxes go up
and as GRT is generated in that District
the tid will receive 75 percent of the
property tax and 70 percent of GRT which
can be reinvested for the public
infrastructure and the general fund will
receive 25 percent of property tax and
30 percent of GRT of the increment and
again
um and so as as this development would
be successful it would be beneficial to
both the tid and the city's general fund
so we look at tid as an economic
development incentive and there's lots
of tools that developers or businesses
can use
um and some of those we want to we want
to reach Mutual goals and so some other
tools that um that we've talked about in
the past are like a special assessment a
special assessment District
um a PID we've talked about there's a
Voluntary Assessment district and so all
of those are different tools that we can
use
um and talking with this specific
applicant
um they felt that the title is most
beneficial both for them and for the
city
um and and then they applied and
proposed that within the adopted tid
guidelines that were adopted by Council
back in the December of last year and
the tig guidelines give us a process
which include application
um evaluation by staff and then a
recommendation to city council who gets
the final approval this is similar to
other their Economic Development
incentives that we work with in our
department uh probably the one that
we've brought most often to council are
things like Lita again there would be an
application evaluation is done by by
staff and then we bring the final
um uh action to city council to decide
if that's something they want to move
forward with and and we
um in all of our incentives we follow
the established process
um it can be replicated with any really
any interested party as long as they
meet the requirements and then it'll be
evaluated by staff on things such as the
number of jobs it creates the number of
private investment back into our city
and and again one of the things that we
look at in most of our incentives is
that economic base where does money come
from is it just within our city or from
outside of our city so we look at and
many times we look at economic based
jobs and this particular
application we're looking at real estate
investment of 450 million dollars of
private money from out of state coming
into our city
so we had some questions about kids in
other places uh there are lots of kids
in New Mexico just some here Winrock
Mall in Albuquerque Tau ski valley
Stonegate 10 Rio Rancho or some that
um popped up we also know that there are
some in in the state that have not had a
good success one of which being the Mesa
Del Sol kid tax increment financing is
done nationally it's not something that
is only in New Mexico and so you can see
it in in a lot of different places
um from I just did a quick search and
we've got Oklahoma Maryland Ohio just as
some examples
um but what I think the more important
thing is what does make it successful
because what we've seen as we know
um there have been some things that have
been successful or not and even in our
own State the first is that there's a
clear plan of what's going to be
um Coming what what will be covered and
what will be paid for with tid revenues
um development occurs and then creates
that increment which builds the
infrastructure that was agreed upon in
the plan so you need to find goals for
development growth and public
infrastructure and then overall we have
Improvement for the community
so again we've talked about in the past
what what are some of the areas that are
best suited for kids we're looking for
things that are underutilized or empty
space something that has increment
potential for both property
um and GRT taxes and that there is a
need for public infrastructure uh one of
the things we talk about is the best
practice of but four that this
development would not have happened but
for the adoption of the tid
so some of the things that we want to
consider or we have considered with this
specific application is that but for
test and we realize that some
development is complete including the
hospital as part of the overall plan but
it's important to note that the hospital
could be Standalone would not require
further development in that district and
with our conversations with the with the
developer
um we know that without this tid it's
unlikely that the rest of the
development will move forward
um I think the other thing to to look at
is those funds will be going in the tid
are going towards public improvements so
the public
um infrastructure is about 42 million
dollars to put in but the private
investment for things that are not
public infrastructure is about 450
million so we're seeing over we're
leveraging those public funds for over a
10 times investment in private fund ones
and again what does that mean for the
city's general fund as there is an
increase in those items 75 percent of
property tax will go to tid but 25 to
general fund and to a GRT it's 30
percent goes to general fund
so the the development equals increment
and if there's no development we we
don't get an increment but for the
Baseline of the general fund they always
continue to get that Baseline
so some highlights for this application
uh as we've we've discussed before uh
there was a done at the city level the
Apodaca blueprint which was a process
that involved a lot of public input on
how we would master plan and how what
kind of development would like to be
seen in this area
and so LC Nova LLC is requesting tid
formation there are no voters in the
district and so the land ownership the
principles of that of that have waived
the vote requirement it's a mostly
vacant and definitely underutilized
parcel of land it has very little
current activity but high potential
which is part of the reason that we
would be interested
um that we might be interested in moving
forward with a tip
so I want to talk about the application
review so our Economic Development
Department received and reviewed the
application and that involves all staff
from Business Development it also
included
um a review of some of their uh economic
impact analysis are at the time our
Economist Dr paidas took a look at that
and actually originally he had some
um suggestions and some changes were
made based on his feedback other
departments have been involved from
Community Development as there as they
relate to the Apodaca blueprint
um Public Works has helped us look
through all of these including the
operations and maintenance agreement
some of their staff has reviewed that to
make sure it's in line and makes sense
for things we've done before Parks and
Rec and utilities have all looked at the
plan up front to understand what might
go in there how that may impact their
costs
um legal has been aware of the process
from the beginning and actually we ended
up going with an outside Council who has
expertise in that so that we could have
someone who would be fully focused on
that but we've kept legal involved
during the conversations we've had input
with Finance in fact we took this
application or we took the application
and presentation to the finance select
committee before bringing it to council
and then City manager's office and we've
had some conversations with budget as
well on what the next steps would be for
the increment
uh we have had cooperation between the
city and county for this uh process and
um we the city and the county have used
the same Financial
um analyst and we're using the same
legal firm although we have different
um actual lawyers looking at it for the
city and the county and I think that
there was some confusion and I'd like to
address that we did not use the city did
not use the same advisors as the
developer
um the city and the developer had two
different legal counsel look at this and
we also had two different uh Financial
analysts look at this so we did not use
the same legal counsel and and financial
analysts but again so we have I just
want to point out to
um city council that it's been a process
that included many of our other
departments and I know that many of the
other department directors are on the
call so if you have questions specific
to them they can they can answer those
as well
foreign
so I had started to talk about the
different
um legal review and the financial
analyst analysis and so our legal review
was by modules furling and they reviewed
both the city statutes and uh or the
state statutes and the city guidelines
to make sure that the application
followed that they helped us to review
the development agreement the operations
and management agreement and and helped
us to negotiate with for the city's
interests they look through those to
make sure they were in line with the
state statute City guidelines but also
um there were several changes that we
asked for negotiated in order to keep
the city's interests top of mind
uh the same with our funding the
financial analysis by Hilltop Securities
we actually had an MOA with the county
to work with them when the first
um
the first time they reviewed the
analysis they asked for up it was right
in the beginning of March and April or
mid to late March to early April and
they realized that the Productions would
need to be updated because of the impact
of covid-19 they asked for additional
Financial documentation and all of which
the developer provided to them and they
evaluated that the developer was in a
sound financial position to move this
project forward going forward with a tip
foreign
accountability and I want to speak to
those we have put together with our
legal team there's a both a development
agreement that clearly expresses what
did money can be used for
um and an o m agreement for operations
and maintenance of that public
infrastructure there has been some
discussion of giving a blank check to
the developer and that is absolutely not
accurate the development and agreement
makes very clear what can be paid for
and what and and things if it's not in
that development agreement it cannot be
paid for
um one of the things that we have
suggested negotiated for is on the tid
board we would recommend that there be a
Treasurer that is a city appointee that
would not be a voting member of the tid
board but instead just an ex-officio
member costs in the plan are estimates
and so we don't just give if if the tid
goes forward and it says oh you now you
the um tid owes the developer 42 million
dollars that's not the way that this
works there will be invoices that show
actual spent on that infrastructure
construction operation and maintenance
and we will only reimburse for actual
actuals on the public infrastructure
um again the revenues are for the
increment that come as a result of the
development and if the revenues um if
the development doesn't happen the
revenues wouldn't happen
um and and the risk is on the developer
if they if the development doesn't show
the increment that they've projected
they've already put in the
infrastructure and they're at risk not
the city not the tid
um and there was also some questions
about procurement code uh and kids are
actually exempt from procurement code
that's at the state level
um and so we're we're not we're
following legal precedent moving forward
with that
so what are the risks to the city and I
I think this is something that um is is
of a lot of concern to our city council
and so the I guess the work kind of the
worst case scenario risk to the city is
this why if there was widespread
unexpected economic
um downturn in in all of the city not
just the tit
um I think it's been important and one
of the things that our little Council
helped us to negotiate is that the debt
um the tid is subordinate to the debt
obligations of the city which means that
if the GRT on a city-wide level dropped
significantly
um the city would first cover their debt
obligations before the tits
um and that's very important the another
risk would be that the development does
not create increment as projected well
I'd like to remind Council that the tid
only reimburses with increment they've
received so if they're if the
development doesn't create the increment
there is no money to reimburse the
developer because they've put the
infrastructure in that puts the
developer at risk and the Financial Risk
is theirs not not the tits but not the
cities if the operations a maintenance
agreement were to go into default the
city would take over the operations and
maintenance
um again that that would be a world of
kind of a worst case scenario
um and and something else that is
important to to note is that tid debt is
not City debt when a tit is created is a
separate entity and so if they take on
bonds and they take on debt that's the
tid's obligation not the city's
obligation
um talking about governance and how how
is this managed for
um for the state or for the tid so per
state statue
um there have to be there there's two
different ways that you can do a board
one is to be the existing governing body
that's what you all are familiar with
and what we've done in downtown
um or it can be this other process which
includes four appointed members and then
a DFA representative as the fifth uh in
the negotiation City staff has worked
with the developers and we Pro and the
application proposes two City
representatives and two developer
representatives to be appointed to the
tid board
um for the initial tid board city
council does appoint the board members
just like any other committee or board
so all of those appointees would go
through city council
um the this is the precedent for the
this board makeup is throughout our
state it that's that's nothing that's
not new
um and the developer representation is
due to them advancing all that funding
up front to build those public
infrastructure
um improvements and and lastly one of
the other things I wanted to point out
that I did not mention in our last
meeting is this Treasurer position again
that would be a city appointee a
non-voting member of the tin board and
that's also there's some precedent for
that in other places in our state
thank you
so the tip plan I I the tip plan
outlines what public infrastructure is
eligible for reimbursement
um the tid board may only reimburse for
infrastructure in that plan
um so there was some concern about if we
moved forward and then at four and six
years down the line when those
appointees were no longer on the board
but instead it was an elected board what
what guidance would there be or what
accountability would there be the tip
board again all can only reimburse for
what is in the plan in the original plan
I think there it's important to point
out there was requests for some streets
that have been completed specifically
mercy and heart
um both of which staff has said we we
would not recommend being paid for
because those are already complete and
they serve that hospital development
so the other streets
um but other streets would be eligible
Parks utilities and parking
um I'd like to talk a little bit more
about the parking obligation we in in
downtown the city owns many of the
parking lots and we understand that it's
a lot of upkeep upkeep and maintenance
and financial responsibility for the
city
and we did not think it was smart for
the city to take on additional parking
infrastructure
um over the next 25 years the developer
did believe that public parking was very
important to the development and so what
we worked out with our
um our and their legal counsel is that
tid could pay for this parking and at
the end of that useful life that parking
would then revert to the the paying or
the ownership of the developer
throughout this process I think that
that's it would be at the end of its
useful life it would not be brand new
parking at that point in time and then
the city would not be um would not
inherit operations and maintenance costs
for that those parking structures and
then one other item was asked a lot was
if the tid people if we wanted to change
the tid plan or if the tid board wanted
to spend money on something other than
what's in the tip plan how would that
happen if the tip plan changed that item
the tip plan would have to come back to
city council for approval so again it's
not a blank check it's not an unknown
expenses it can only be used to
reimburse for infrastructure as outlined
in the plan
um so talking about the development
agreement so the developer
um advances the funds as in they they
pay for the construction of these public
improvements it's important to note that
all of these things will be built to
City standards and will have
construction warranties
um that was part of what was negotiated
it would be warranty for a year upon the
city receiving
um those public improvements as the
revenue becomes available they'll
reimburse the developer the development
agreement is for only 25 years it's not
indefinite
uh again if the the risk is that the tid
wouldn't generate that Revenue to fully
immerse the developer that's the
developer's risk
the tid obligations are not the
responsibility of the city
um and the increment is subordinate to
the city's debt obligations so I I
repeated myself a couple times on that
but those are key and important items
um the operations and maintenance
agreement which is the second part of
this Not only would the developer be
building it to City standards but they
we would use tip funding for them to
operate and maintain it also to City
standards
um they the city would had oversight and
rights to operate and maintain if the
developer failed to do that
um and default of their operations and
maintenance agreement again this is for
a 25-year term
and one of the things that came up in
some of the input was that they're in
the operations and maintenance agreement
there was a line item about marketing
and staff was in active negotiations
with the developer for that specific
line item and we do recommend removal of
that line item
so we've talked about one of the
questions many of the questions we're
talking about the expansion of the
boundaries
um
so I think it's important to talk about
that tit-funded improvements do not have
to be located within the tid boundaries
but they do have to
um
be part of the development or feed into
the development and they must be part of
the tid plan so and serve the purposes
of the project one of the things that
we've talked about with the developer
over the last two weeks specifically is
I we would we think it would make sense
to add Solano Madrid and Apodaca Park as
eligible expenses in the tid plan
so that once the public Improvement or
the public infrastructure that they've
um
already suggested and and asked for but
if the if the increment was higher than
projected we could also use tip funding
to pay for improvements on on Solano
Madrid and Apodaca park because we do
know that those will feed into this
development
um the question about actually expanding
the boundaries the the reason that the
boundaries have been chosen part of that
is related to
um the ownership of the land but also
the its ability to contribute to the
increment so it would only make sense to
expand the boundaries if the additional
land contributed to the increment and
the owners would consent to this
inclusion
um I want to talk about the difference
between
um tid and and land use so tid is this
fight is a financing incentive for
development
um regardless of whether the tid passes
or not that does not impact zoning land
use permitting and building requirements
and so there have been some feedback
that we've received some feedback that
um
mix both the tid and then a a PUD
application and so those are different
processes the tit is strictly for the
financing of it
um the Pud is for the land use it's
important to keep those processes
separate as Council will have to make
decisions on both of them
um so part of the public input that we
received that was specific to the Pud
has been shared with community
oh I lost you uh Mandy we were not
ignoring the public input But it
includes some of the Pud concept plan
the traffic impact analysis and the
Apodaca blueprint land uses
Mandy cut out for I don't know about 10
seconds 15 seconds oh
um thank you Mir for letting me know
I'll just quickly go back over this
information again and I apologize if I
repeat myself but I think it's important
that you know all of it
um some of the public input we received
was specific to a PUD process that is
different from the tid process and so we
did not answer that and we don't want to
talk about that today because Council
will have to make
um decisions on both of those and we
don't want to we don't want to mix those
up and so some of the public input that
we did not address but we did share with
the Community Development Department
which is spearheading the Pud process
are items related to the concept plan
the traffic impact analysis and some of
the Apodaca blueprint actual land uses
and and the thing I'd like to highlight
again just in case you missed it is that
tit is a financing incentive for
development it does not impact zoning
land use permitting and building
requirements all of those will still
need to be followed as development
occurs all of the normal zoning land use
permitting and building requirements
will have to be gone through those
processes by the developer
um so the action that we brought before
Council two weeks ago and that was
tabled until next week was the
resolution of intent
um that item is actually required by
State Statute
um it is it is a non-minding uh
resolution on the council and the
process makes that application is that
when that application becomes available
for public review the resolution of
intent schedules a public hearing on
whether or not to form the tid and
hopefully combined with the work session
today will provide the time and
opportunity for public input to review
um
and make think and share their input in
advance and add the public hearing later
in July or later in August
so I'd like to talk about the review
timeline some of the original
discussions were with City staff and the
developer started as early as October of
um throughout the early 2019 there were
conversations of interest on it in a tid
and City staff realized that we as a
city did not have a mechanism to work
with a private developer to implement a
tip and so um there was a work session
on tid policies in September 2019 and
then those guidelines were actually
adopted by City Council in December of
December 2nd 2019 that allowed us to
have a process to go through if a
private developer was interested
um in in moving forward with a tid
um we had a meeting in December 6 2019
with city and county
um officials on this private tid
application gave some initial feedback
to the developer and received the full
initial tit application on January 1st
of 2020.
um at the time in January uh of this
year that we there was a request to
adopt this in February there are only
two two dates that the New Mexico State
Tax and rev will allow you to start a
tid it's on July 1st or
um January 1st and those are really
require 120 day notice and so
when we had this initial meeting was the
first time we'd gone through this
process and we realized that a request
for a February adoption wasn't
um would not give us the time we needed
um for the the needed due diligence so
in that time we've had staff review
where we've given feedback especially on
the economic impact numbers we've had
legal review which I went over earlier
on the tid application the development
agreement the O M agreement we've had
financial analysis which was redone with
the covid-19 impact being considered
um and once we had it to a point where
we thought it was it was close and we
needed to bring it to council to
consider that
um resolution of intent we had a meeting
on May 20th with a finance select
committee uh and and got the green light
to bring it forward to council
so if we were to move forward
um July 6th the intent to form
resolution has been tabled to the July 6
meeting
um if the Mandy I'm sorry for
interrupting before you go too far the
slide before number 27 can you go back
to that real quick I need to clarify a
couple things
the one right before that
uh let's see here
were you put in September 20 uh
September 9 2019 work session on tit
policies for development
what was interesting about that is that
that's the same time that we discussed
the El Paseo tit
Le um no so we brought forward to
council I think when we brought to
council some options for El Paseo was
earlier this year in 2020.
um I don't remember recall if that was
in January or February but that was a
joint presentation I think you're
referring to the presentation from
Economic Development Community
Development and quality of life correct
well it was one where you brought uh
very various different
um
mechanisms uh yes that was that was
earlier this year it was I believe that
was in February of 2020.
okay and then also when you this
December 6 2019 meeting says join City
County Administrator you said officials
did you mean elected officials or do you
mean staff I mean staff apologize for
that step that was staff okay all right
go ahead and you can go back to number
28 your schedule okay
um
so if if the intent to form resolution
were to pass that City Council on on
July the 6th
um we have to take the actual formation
resolution per statute more than 30 less
than 60 days later so we scheduled that
um tentatively we'll be scheduled for
August the 17th
um for Council to choose whether to form
we would have both the public hearing
and then that formation resolution
um we will also be required to change
our ordinances to dedicate the tax
increments to the tid and so we would
take that also on August the 17th and
then the application would be submitted
to Tax and Revenue no later than
September 1st and January 1st would be
the date that the tid was formed
and so I just wanted to finish up with
some key points as as things about kids
and things that were
um evaluated by staff
um so tids are for construction
operations and maintenance of public
infrastructure again only public it's
not this isn't money in the developer's
pocket for their private development it
is the public pieces of the of the
infrastructure
um as as Griselda highlighted it helps
us to reach goals as outlined from the
Abu DACA blueprint Elevate Las Cruces uh
development of infill area our Economic
Development Department it brings
investment in Las Cruces we're looking
at over 450 million dollars of private
investment from outside of the state
coming into Las Cruces and then new jobs
in Las Cruces we're looking at about a
thousand new jobs
those are not necessarily economic based
jobs but again retail and service jobs
do help prevent leakage so money doesn't
leave our state or our community
um
the development and then the growth and
tax base is is probably not going to
happen if this tit is not is not does
not move forward and City staff has done
their due diligence on the project we've
brought outside
um analysts we've worked throughout the
um throughout the city and different
departments have have weighed in in
their in their areas of expertise
um and then again Tim funded
improvements are public infrastructure
that are beneficial to the development
but more importantly also to the city
and the community as a whole
and so with that I will um stand for
questions
uh Mandy before you before we do that do
you happen to have a picture of a map
showing
um or diagram showing the public
infrastructure that
um the applicant the developers were
going to do
um I I have one map I will show it to
you but I believe the developer will
also be going more
um specifically over there
um their infrastructure the map that I
have here shows the roads that are
highlighted
um there's also some of the
intersections uh parking and parks and
so I I would if you're okay with that
mirror I'd defer that over to the
developers when they go through their
presentation and talk about those
specific improvements uh that that's
fine
um but the
public infrastructure you're talking
about primarily are roads
roads there's roads Parks utilities
um intersections
um and and parking
okay
uh I thought I had I have a slide where
it's listed yeah
from the tip plan
okay
all right well before we get to council
I was hoping to go ahead and listen to
the applicant so they can either
piggyback off of what you had to say and
then I'll open it up to uh the council
members questions that way that we can
kind of get that a little bit condensed
and and they can they can either
concur with what you've said refuse
maybe some of the things you said or
expand on some of the things that you
said so I'm going to allow uh Mr uh
zygert or Ashley or Ashley Zach weiger
Zach almost all right I will I will stop
sharing my screen so that they can share
theirs okay
okay
uh I think Ashley's gonna share her
screen and I'm gonna do the talking
because I'm
technology challenge so
um I first first uh let me start out by
saying uh that if everyone can hear me
can everyone hear me yes okay uh I
appreciate the city has done a
phenomenal job Griselda and Mandy has
been working on this for a great deal of
time and working all the way through
getting it approved as an instrument
that can be used in Las Cruces it's been
used in other cities very effectively
and in New Mexico and the fact that it's
in Las Cruces now is greatly their
working efforts
um before we go through the plan here
mayor I just want to some of the
questions that we received I want to
dispel if you miss maybe
um different meanings and things that we
did throughout the process starting in
October of 18 to get to where we're at
today to get the tit approved
so we actually went as far as doing a uh
branding for this we hired a company
that does all the marketing for Adidas
and Red Bull and they put a brand in
plan together for us as far as a logo
symbol all this and that to be able to
market the project once we started doing
it the idea would be is you create a
live work play model
um I know Amir I sent you an email but
the reasons for needing this to create
this live work play model the reason why
a tit is needed is if you look at the
country in general we do a lot of work
in all over Dallas Salt Lake City
Atlanta the average income in a
household in the United States is a
little over sixty thousand dollars in
Las Cruces it's like 41 000.
um and so and the poverty rate in the
rest of that
yes counselor I I've been told that our
YouTube presentation or uh
um uh presentation has been frozen
uh now since Mr uh
uh yeah it gets back up again counselor
oh okay thank you yeah thank you
so um and I I think everyone knows this
that uh and the state of New Mexico it's
about 48 49 000 but in Las Cruces
Pacific it's about 41 so we have about
you know twenty thousand dollars less of
household average income in the city of
Las Cruces
so
um to create a live work play model
where you can have the amenities and
have class A apartments and office and
things like that the reason for needing
it is that those who are today aren't
those that in a similar type city that
has a higher income and so that's the
simple reason for uh to create a
destination location like this the
simple reason is is over time those
rates will go up and newer nicer product
will pop up otherwear other places
around the city after something like
this is established
go ahead
so this is just a uh outline of the
boundaries of the kid you can see the
inner Square there is the hospital
go ahead there's some better maps that
show the infrastructure
here's the roads
keep going
okay so this map on the right here mayor
this is the map I wanted to show you so
the hospital is the salmon color there
the
um the you can see all the roads here so
all the roads all the green spaces and
all the gray parking is all public so
all those things can be uh are public
and will be used for public dollars all
the blue uh and then obviously the
hospital site or the private
developments that will create the taxes
which will pay for the public
and so there's a breakdown of cost to do
that here's a layout of what we've been
talking about building
um there's a mix of multi-family that
are along Upper Darby Park and on the
main corner of the three crosses you can
see the hospital there's some service
restaurants and things like that retail
uh office components and then uh there's
um Town Homes along the uh the
neighboring the neighborhood next door
and some senior living facilities that's
that's what creates the increment that
will this property will generate
here's the different uses broke out to
get to the 450 million
broke out in square footage and costs
this breaks out the different taxes that
are paid to give you an idea the current
taxes on this property are thirty eight
thousand dollars
so 100 times
of what it currently pays and it I'm I'm
it hasn't been higher than that since
we've looked back it's been
a golf course prior and then obviously
it was
vacant ground was in bankruptcy
so this is what we're talking about
bonding so we've talked to uh the city
staff we are going to replace a
intersection there um I'm going to get
the street strong collado and City staff
can help me on that uh but we'll replace
an entire intersection there was another
intersection replaced into the property
when the hospital was built that it paid
for uh put in all the roads and
infrastructures for utilities and all
those things that need to go in and we
would start building the first sets of
apartments and things right off the bat
here in January if approved
so there is the only dollar from the
city that go back to this is a
reimbursement of increment created by
the private investment
and so if there is no private investment
that's the buck 4 test so but for
getting the kid and you won't build any
of the other private Investments there
is no dollars in from the city and you
can see what the infrastructure dollars
are of that is paid back over time with
the increment created off the 450
million dollar investment by the private
developer
so these are just definitions of jobs so
part of this is when we hired a group to
do
a analysis a financial analysis so part
of the tip is you have to have a third
party financial analyst analyze your
plan and give you the numbers so these
aren't the numbers you're seeing were
done by a third party and then the city
hired another group to review our
planners plans
so that's how these numbers were gotten
to not these are made up numbers by the
developer okay
so you can see direct jobs 4 000 direct
jobs indirect and induced jobs for
parents are a total of 5 300 jobs
created
and you can see the income all that also
and the overall output of that from and
this is all done by a third parties uh
based on we give them a plan of what we
plan to build and this is the output
that I came as far as job creation
go ahead
uh so that says that the average income
of the new jobs created is 18 and a half
percent higher than the Las Cruces
average Union total forty thousand six
fifty eight which would basically put
you more in line with what the state of
New Mexico's average needs right now
so uh and then direct jobs are 82
percent of jobs created which those are
uh and there's other taxes that are
created by moving people to your city
not just the property taxes and GRT
taxes that will be here both will be
income taxes other taxes coming off of
these jobs with the salaries paid
go ahead
so this breaks it down by the different
uh indirect and induced jobs and direct
jobs based on the different uses
and these are these are uh like I said
all done by a third party uh well you
said we basically said here's what we're
going to build and we're going to build
it and they these are the outputs that
were put out by a third party and then
was overall uh was checked by the city
with with their financial advisors
so in summary uh you know about 41
million dollars of infrastructure and uh
basically what is happening is is the
city is pledging a portion of the
increment created in the in the taxes
that are generated by a new development
and so they're just pledging back part
of that to cover the cost of the
infrastructure there
um as far as
the receipts tax 4.7 million and just
the new construction and receives tax
and then 3.6 million in recurring GRT
and property tax on an annual basis like
I said right now that property pays
about thirty thousand dollars in Texas
5500 jobs 1814 recurring 5349
construction jobs and to have a live
work play
um Community project that is beneficial
to the residents of Las Cruces at a rate
that is Affordable based on the income
of the people in Las Cruces
so part of this mayor too is is as uh
you know there's
some other projects that have been done
that are similar to this that others
might know about you know I know there's
been an El Pas in other places I don't
know if Randy McMillan if you're still
on the call he runs the local and owns
the local Nai office that would know the
market here better than anyone your
Brandy's or anything you'd like to wait
on that
uh yes I'd be glad to am I off of mute
just need you to identify yourself Randy
please
okay yes this is Randy McMillan um
one of the partners in the land but also
a partner in AI first Valley and Nai El
Paso and um we helped with the developed
estimate down there called Monticello
and uh we would invite all of you to
come down and see that at some time we
were did some of the brokerage work
including Topgolf Alamo Drafthouse
um iFly is now coming down there
um
they've got about 800 Apartments there
now
and that project was done with the tid
much like this one
and would not have been done had not
that uh incentive been there so it's
worked extremely well and again we'd
like to invite any of the counselors or
um
anyone else that's interested to come
down and take a tour
and see what a beautiful project that is
now so
we'd like to do something similar here
in Las Cruces
and would need
this helped to get it done and so we'd
appreciate your consideration
I think Jake is also here and and I
think Jake would be uh able to talk
about the overall Market
um and why that a tid would be necessary
in order to spur on this kind of
development right now development
commercial development in Las Cruces is
very very slow
um and that's the case in a lot of areas
because of just the overall economic
environment
and to have a project like this in front
of us is is really rare the other thing
I'd like to say is excuse me is that um
we I've been involved in this project
from the time that's a country club put
the property on the market
and we finally sold it to a group that
bought it with owner financing
they defaulted they tried to get the
hospital that is there today
uh developed for five six years I think
and they finally
um defaulted on their loan
Evac came along with myself and and a
couple of other individuals and we
bought the loan
and in a very short period of time that
hospital is standing uh they're hiring
doctors they're hiring nurses and uh
without that commercial development
I think you would see that the overall
commercial development in Las Cruces has
been very very slow
and that has been a huge part of the tax
base and also of the development that
we've actually had but Alex let Jake
speak to that a little bit further go
ahead Jake thanks Randy uh this is Jake
Redfern I'm a partner at Nai first
Valley and just for the record just to
be clear I'm not a financial partner in
this like uh Zach and Randy and Dennis
are on that 76 Acres I'm simply a a
broker who's been working on this
project is Randy mentioned since since
the Inception since Las Cruces Country
Club put it up for sale but Zach did a
tremendous job Mandy uh Randy touching
most of the points I was going to speak
on but what I'll expand upon a little
bit is what Zach mentioned earlier about
the income levels in in Las Cruces and
and specifically around this project a
lot of what we do in commercial real
estate is recruit
uh retail users here uh multi-family
folks office Builders etc etc one of the
first metrics that they look at when
coming to a market is income levels
after that at school districts and
things that you guys all find important
probably on this call and so when you
look at this particular project and
where it's located there's there's a
reason it's an opportunity Zone there's
a reason there's a kid application this
is a difficult area to get values in and
justify people and developers spending
their money here so with Zach's group
coming along bringing a lot of
credibility to this project in my
opinion I thought this tid application
was made a ton of sense and I actually
thought originally whenever they first
started the process down at the city
that this would
um you know not not be a breeze
necessarily that's probably too strong
but certainly something that was met
with open arms to get this project off
the ground I was surprised to see that
it wasn't
um 76 acres in Las Cruces as anybody
that drives around our Market can see is
a lot of land it takes a lot of time to
absorb and develop I think if something
like this is not approved in our Market
we're going to see kind of what we see
in the rest of our Market where we build
a Wendy's uh then next door we do an
acorn and Mr Car Wash then we find
something else and something else you
guys have in front of you I think an
opportunity to come to an agreement with
Zach and his team on something that the
city can be proud of for years to become
a cohesive development
as many on the call know I've said on
different ad hoc committees and groups
down at the city
for the past 10 12 years working on
Elevate Las Cruces working on the
Apodaca blueprint working on Vision 2040
with the county and this type of
development is what we've been asking
for for 10 or 15 years and all those
different groups and committees and and
different things that the city has
adopted policies and plans and so I
think it's a good opportunity for us to
to take advantage of that and I think
it's a good opportunity to do to partner
with somebody who has the credibility
who has the capacity to do this we don't
have anybody locally who can take off
take on a project the size
um at all and so it took somebody that
we could bring from outside the
community Zach's team stepped up and as
Randy mentioned delivered on that
hospital in mob that we have been
fighting and working to get here for
five or six years as many of you know
they did it on short order and you know
it's going to be operational here
shortly in our community creating those
jobs that they're talking about so
with that mayor I'll turn it back over
to you with any questions
um I'll offer my you know time to sit
down with anybody individually to go
over the economics of how these things
work and why it's so difficult to
develop in these infill areas why we
need these tid setups why we need
opportunity zones in order to get
investment to come back into the core of
our city and not keep going out on the
fringes
thank you thanks Chief uh can someone go
back to this in this slide presentation
where you broke down the the prices of
the of the infrastructure of what you're
putting in
I think that's it okay first off what is
Mob infrastructure
follow the infrastructure was it a oh
the top number there
go ahead Randy if you want
to say medical office build medical
office building medical office
okay so so Mandy mentioned when she was
talking that there was a couple roads
and some things that were covered when
the hospital was built
and so some of those roads count as
infrastructure that was put in some
don't we we took out the ones that were
built that were specifically for the
hospital part of this is is the if you
can see on this same slide that the
purple Road part of that in an
intersection was done that was absorbed
100 by the hospital this would be to
reimburse the hospital for that share of
those roads were done because that's
going to benefit the entire
development not just the hospital so the
roads that are specifically for the
hospital aren't in there that's only
those that are for the entire so example
is we had to run water part way into the
project for the entire parcel that
shouldn't be just the hospital absorbing
all that okay so also when it comes to
structured parking where is that that 21
million where's is that it's just it's a
future if we don't build it we don't
build it Mayors we're just we're putting
a hold on there saying that at some
point if we want to densify this we may
do put structured parking if that
doesn't happen the numbers half of what
it was if we if we don't create the
increment we don't spend the money we
don't pay for it so it's just we wanted
to plan for it in case what would it
have been would it have been an actual
parking
garage or or just parking garage
a parking garage so let's say that the
hospital and then we have a couple large
office users and a hotel by the hospital
which is what we're looking in doing is
that you may want to build a parking
garage at some point that can be funded
by the taxes here so those people are
going to park instead of having you know
20 acres of parking lots to have an
actual structured parking garage so it's
not even on here then you don't even
have it identified in this in this map
no it's it's it'd be one of the it'd be
one of the gray areas we just have all
parking that's what that is the gray is
all parking and then the public
Community areas is that basically what
the great green spaces so uh there's
three the three green spaces there's a
couple of public parks and a walking
area degree in space plus this isn't
showing but we're continuing and this is
all part of the Pud so but we're
continuing all the uh
roads that go from Apodaca Park and from
the neighborhoods as far as all the
walking trails all the bike trails all
that is being paid for them
so let me just ask yourself
right let me just ask you something Zach
and then I'm going to go to kick my uh
the colleagues here so in your other
developments that you did not use a tiff
or a Ted
and let's say you were required to do
these you you obviously had to put these
streets in correct to City standards and
wherever it is these cities Direct
uh and probably some of them had you do
water retention and some of them also
had you do uh
public areas like a park and things of
this nature
did the city not expect you to turn that
over to them
uh yes but the difference is for example
um we're doing a Ted in Kansas City in
Raymore Kansas City which is in
outskirts of Kansas City
um to give you an example uh if we did
this project in Dallas I can get two
dollars a foot for apartment rent
in Kansas City where I'm doing this in
Raymore which is a suburb it's not
downtown Kansas City suburb I had a kid
there and because I can get about 1.20
rent there in Las Cruces it's like 90
cents
so the point would be is in Dallas I
don't need it because I can charge
enough for an apartment where I can
cover those costs and put the
infrastructure in in Kansas City and
especially Las Cruces I can't make it
back by building the private buildings I
Can't Get Enough rent to cover the
construction costs because the
difference between construction costs in
Las Cruces Kansas City and Dallas is it
within five percent
okay so but in in other communities you
actually have built this
and basically turn it over to the city
for them to keep and maintain and then
you pretty much walk away from it I mean
that's usually how it's done
most developers uh whether it's on the
Sonoma area or wherever it is they'll
build all the infrastructure the roads
the sidewalks the multi-use path
whatever was required and then when
they're done the sewer systems
everything they just turn it to the city
and they walk away so this does get
turned to the city after it's paid for I
don't think the city wanted if it had
the city had to pay for it so the tip
but the tip basically is is a a plan to
put it in pay for it so when you do give
it to the city which the tit is public
when it's given to the city it's all
paid for that you can't have any debt
left on it when the city receives it
okay I thought I was of the impression
that this tid was used to reimburse the
developer for cost of public
infrastructure
it is but all that infrastructure is
given to the city when the tits paid off
the city ends up owning all the
infrastructure right but even if it
wasn't a tit they still get to own it
that's what I'm trying to get at I just
wanted to clarify that I mean that
that's just yeah
is a financing mechanism for the
reimbursement of private
taxes being paid in that in order to pay
for that infrastructure no I get it yeah
at the end of the day the roads and all
the infrastructure is the sentenced
right but even if it wasn't a tit even
if you didn't ask a kid and you were
still doing this you would still turn
this these roads over to the city you
wouldn't keep it private you wouldn't
keep the park private I don't think you
would I don't think you'd keep any of it
private you wouldn't want to be you
wouldn't want to be called at three
o'clock in the morning hey you got a
sewer broke and you don't want to fix it
you probably just turned over to the
city that's now 99.9 of all the
developers usually do but I just wanted
to clarify that that's all I just now
I'm going to go to my colleagues here
and they have some questions so first
one is counselor sword
thank you Mr Mayor um
um I I
um is
I was getting quite surprised when the
staff uh
Dr Martinez and uh Mandy Gus would
presents
I was listening very carefully and
trying to find
uh where in their presentation
they showed some disadvantages of having
a tid
I don't think I heard any of it there
in fact it got to a point where I was
starting to get a little shocked uh I
think a good staff would show us the
pros and cons the advantages and
disadvantages of something they're
presenting to us
uh yet I did see no disadvantage of
having a tit disadvantages of not having
a tid yeah that was very clear
um so I was asking myself why is Staff
supporting this kid
and it kind of bothered me
um
so normally staff shows that kind of a
thing I I didn't see it
um
let me go through the butt four this is
always something that bothered me
um
they claim that this would not happen
there will be no development on this
piece of land without this kid well that
may be the case for this company
well that's not going the land is still
there it's not going anywhere
and by the way as a side note that land
should be maintained Whoever has control
of that land should maintain it the dead
tree should be taken out the weeds
should be mowed we have ordinances that
say that has to be done just as a side
note
um but the land is still there
somebody else can develop it
they can sell their interest in that
land and somebody else could develop it
but let us look at what's really
happening here
um
the tax money from the land here uh GRT
and property is going to pay for those
infrastructure uh that's on the list
there
um
the land will be developed then uh
people will buy Parcels of land to put
their buildings on whether it be
residential commercial or other
and when they sell that land
uh the cost of that infrastructure will
be missing
from the sale of that land in other
words the land will have uh a cheaper
value
um that's not the way any of our other
developments work when you go to a
subdivision
the cost of the street in front of your
parcel of land is part of the cost of
that land
well if the taxes pay for that won't the
owner of the land that's he sells when
he sells it
pocket that extra money
that's what I'm concerned about
normally this is what happens
now
um
I I don't know how else you can uh
explain this that uh sure in other words
this land will be cheaper than other
lands no land sells for market value
and so uh market value includes the cost
of the infrastructure
and this of course is paid by the taxes
that's your taxes that's my money that's
your money uh in the in the council in
the city here and uh so we're paying for
uh this person this company to uh uh uh
develop it and that's not the way we do
things here in Las Cruces
um
and then about about the uh
development of of uh Economic
Development I mean uh the capital
investment yeah there's there's economic
base there there's new money being put
into this uh development but it's a
one-time thing
it's a one and done whereas economic
based jobs go on and on and on continue
to attract new money into the city
and that's the only way you're going to
be able to afford to have these new
businesses that are going to occupate
occupy this uh uh development
is to have new money if you don't have
that new money
was this development going to do it's
just going to take the business away
from other businesses in the city
ones across the street on Main Street
there the ones from downtown or other
places in the city
we've got to have new money
and granted okay maybe it'll track some
retirees from California New Jersey
Midway
and they will bring new money in that's
possible but how much of that how much
is that going to be we don't even know
if it's going to happen very much at all
so that's what I'm where I'm concerned
here is that our tax money is going to
pay for their development and they're
going to reap the profits off of that
which will include if not all some of
that uh uh money that we give in in this
tax increment development
um
I'm okay with it developing slowly
um not and sometimes if you try to do
something too fast mistakes are made and
I think this is one of our mistakes that
we could make here
so
uh again
um this is my disadvantage of having
this kid
and uh
um I'll leave it at that uh with reserve
the right to ask a question or make a
remark later
thank you mayor thank you Council it
looks like Mandy Gus has a comment Mandy
thank you man counselor sword
um I know counselor sork had asked for
to understand both the pros and cons of
of developing a tid so when I went over
the risks to the city I think that's
kind of where we were looking at
um some of the worst case scenarios if
there was widespread economics how would
the city be protected if the development
did not create the increment as
projected and in that scenario again
that puts the developer with not the
city
um and I I
I will deferred to
um the developer to discuss this but the
other question that uh councilor sword
that you brought up was that but four
um and understanding that other
development could take place there
um I think that's important to point out
that this developer is the owner
um of that land and in the opportunity
Zone
um he's got to hold on to that land for
10 years and so
um yes the the city is we've staff has
gone through and we've put in different
places to mitigate risk for the city and
and do believe that this would be
beneficial for the city as well as
um as well as the developer and so I'll
let I'll let Zach speak to your other
points but I just didn't want to do
those those are not disadvantages of
having a tid those are only advantages
of having a tip I I
so I think that's that's the way I would
prefer to
word it the risks of the
tip and Dr Martinez's excuse me Dr
Martinez is also looks like she has her
hand up did you want to say something
uh Dr Martinez yes mayor thank you
councilor sword
um I think it's important for us to
um make sure that we address those
concerns
um because after we hear the concerns
from from city council we had a
um a very robust conversation with our
external legal advisor and we basically
asked what are the risks what are the
disadvantages and and basically the
summary of of slide number 18 those were
the items that
um were highlighted
with that we made sure that we um with
the Dead from the city's perspective
that we included a provision in the
agreement that would protect the city
from from losing the ability to cover
the debt the economic downturn be
extremely I will defer to Leanne to
expand on that because we had a
conversation with our office budget
officer and we and our Treasurer and we
had the opportunity to have that
conversation and so that's that's for
the disadvantages or risks related to
the tin
um for the economic development
investment and new funds into the city
um I will defer to Dr Paredes because he
was heavily involved in in that
conversation as well for the maintenance
of the streets
um I will ask Sonia Delgado our director
for Parks and Recreation and David
sedillo our director for public works if
they can speak to those items we also
had a conversation with them too asking
what would be the burden for the city
for this development so if if we can
have Sonia and then David sedillo and
then Dr payares it would be very helpful
and in Leander mulch as our budget
officer
okay thank you be sure to please
identify yourself as you speak
yes
that's not what I was concerned about
the fact the matter is this
infrastructure is going to add value to
the land
okay the line is worth more than it is
without the infrastructure
I don't know what percentage or what
amount it is but it's going to be worth
more so when the land is sold that will
be added to the costs of the land
well if the developer
pays for that infrastructure yeah he'll
get his money back then
but if the city's taxes pay for that
infrastructure you'll get the same
amount of money back
and we will pay for that and the money
will go to the landowner that sells the
land
you follow me Dr Martinez
can I answer that criselda this is Zach
sure I think there's a complete misnomer
here it's the private dollars being paid
within the district through sales taxes
and property taxes the increment created
so what it's at today to what the new
increment is those private tax dollars
being paid to the city is what pays for
the infrastructure the developers still
paying for all the infrastructure with
their investment
so I I don't know where the city's
paying for the infrastructure it's on
and it was part of Mandy's presentation
the developer is responsible for paying
for all the infrastructure
if there is a land sale which we're
planning on developing in all ourselves
but if there is a landscale that piece
of ground still owes us Pro radisher of
all the infrastructure costs to pay that
off when we turn this back over the city
all that debt has to be paid off
okay okay so you're not selling a parcel
of land before to build a restaurant for
some somebody's going to have a
restaurant on us no I would I would
choose the ground lease them if they
would I mean it's an opportunity Zone I
can't sell the land for 10 years so
you're not going to so you're not going
to sell any of this land to anybody
I'd rather own and develop it all myself
okay well when you do do that and you
add the least to it you will be at
having that added value to the land in
any case whether you lease it out or
sell it doesn't matter
uh well if I if I invest 450 million
dollars of private invest in the land I
I hope it's worth more than 50 cents at
that time
yeah in other words the value of the
land will be higher that you'll be able
to charge a higher uh um
to set up
uh value of the land will be higher
because and you'll be able to get that
value out of the lease that you uh give
to people that build a business there
for an apartment build no the land the
value of the land will be higher because
we built a 65 million dollar hospital
and we'll build Apartments
which create the values
now that's beside the point point is the
infrastructure is adding value to the
land you will recuperate that value when
you lease it out you will get it and
we're we're paying for the
infrastructure no you're not we are
paying that our tax money is paying for
it
the taxes created within this District
the increment created so not one dime of
the tax that you're receiving today on
this property is going to pay for
anything yes exact that tax money would
normally go to the city like every other
development in the city does
all increases in taxes go to the city or
county
they all go there
on every development
and here for creating the new increment
part of it's being reimbursed it's still
it's still private tax dollars being
paid they're going to the city
is there such a thing as a private tax
dollar
yeah every tax is a private paid dollar
yes if something's owned publicly it
doesn't create taxes yes that's true
once the taxes are paid it's public
money
yeah and if they get paid the same way
here and portion of that is going back
to pay for the infrastructure you
mentioned doing housing projects I don't
know how they do it in Las Cruces but
everywhere else in the planet where they
do large-scale housing projects they set
up SIDS sewer Improvement districts it's
exact same mechanism they said they put
in all the infrastructure and as they
sell lots and those houses pay their
taxes it goes back to pay for the sewer
Improvement District
that's how majority of large housing
projects in the entire country are done
because the developer cannot afford to
put in all the roads and all that I go
to the city on the front end
yeah I'm not too familiar with what
you're talking about there
but I'm saying that's very often done I
think you guys have Lita here in town
it's used for projects like that to put
in infrastructure this is how very large
scale projects are done majority of the
time
okay but again
I say it over and over again
the the value of the infrastructure
increases the value of the land wow you
uh get that a value to get it back for
you so it doesn't matter if you sell it
or lease it but the infrastructure
increases the value of the land and we
are paying for that infrastructure in
this tip
the city of Las Cruces
because that tax dollars would normally
go to our general fund
without a tid
and without them I mean it's the Chicken
and the Egg and without the private boat
buildings being built in the increment
can create there is no tax dollars okay
uh you actually have to have a private
investment to even create those tax
dollars
right right
counselor I think I know I know what
you're you were asking about you know
the pros and cons I think we I think we
understand it um okay yeah let's let's
hold off on the presentation from the
others and maybe go to the other council
members and then if need be we can
circle around and go back to that if
that's okay
um counselor about this movie
[Music]
thank you mayor and uh
it's weaker thank you great thank you
um for your presentation
um just for for my benefit for kind of
the historical context and I think I
might need Mr MacMillan too
um the original owners of the lot is
it's Mr McMillan and his group and then
you came and purchased
um property or is do I have that
backwards
um kind of so we we uh on the on the not
the hospital Acres but the surrounding
acreage Mr McMillan and his group had a
option to buy it out of foreclosure
there was a a note sale
on the property we were working with Mr
McMillan and his group on getting the
hospital put together and this is when
we Engage The City back in 2018 and I
said well if we can get a package and
help put in the infrastructure should we
buy the rest of this land and put in the
infrastructure and develop the rest of
this land at that time we bought the
note at a receivership
okay so that has been completed then
correct yeah back in 18 and then
basically since October of 18 we've been
working with the city to get to because
it's been done in other places in New
Mexico but it had never been adopted in
Las Cruces and was the increment
the the process that fit best for this
type of development so that's something
to do with the city
[Music]
um
did I just correct one thing there Zach
and that is he said that I had an option
to buy it Randy I need you to please
identify yourself before you jump in and
if you would please put your put your
hand up with it just so I can recognize
you instead of you just jumping in if
you don't mind please
I don't mind at all but the only problem
is I couldn't get in on the zoom for
some reason and oh okay so I have no way
of putting I apologize it's just this is
Randy McMillan and I just wanted to
correct one thing I did not have an
option to buy it we we bought it out of
receivership and bid on it everybody had
the right to bid on it
um and we we ended up buying it that way
and then you know you know what Randy I
want to clarify that you said everybody
had to write the bid on it we tried to
bid on it see Las Cruces tried to buy it
we couldn't buy it so I don't know where
you're where you're coming back coming
out saying everybody could have bought
it we tried to buy it a lot of people
don't know that but we we did we wanted
that piece of land but anyways just I
just wanted to clarify that I don't
excuse me but uh it was sold out of
receivership that's handled by the
federal courts yeah
anyone that wanted to bid on that could
bid on that and I'm hoping that none of
this coming from uh the fact that for
some reason you didn't or someone told
you didn't I don't know well I'm brand
new sir so that doesn't apply to me
[Music]
um my question becomes on this and kind
of what I'm just trying to figure out
for my my own benefit as well
um with it when you bought that what was
the intent for this project because it
is a large piece of land and so was it
always the intent to have a tid on this
type of development was it something
that just came
um later
um just kind of looking for your
historical kind of background on what
you wanted to yeah so at the time we
first started talking to City On Our
timeline then that was right around when
we bought the property out of
receivership okay and so
um yes we met with the city and they
laid out three or four different types
of economic incentives there is in Las
Cruces
um every every city their name
differently but there's a lot of the
same types of incentives uh we came to
the conclusion that tid was the one that
would work best just from the time frame
and the amount of infrastructure and
things that needed to be put in and so
we at that time we said well it's a very
logical piece of ground to do this
they're creating an opportunity Zone
there which we had capital gains attacks
that we could defer from that which is
another incentive that this property has
on it in order to get the benefit of
that you have to hold the property for
10 years uh which the city had mentioned
but yes we we started talking to them
directly about putting a tent in place
at that time
right when okay so we made a large
investment in another ownership entity
in the hospital there which
um my understanding they were trying to
get done for six seven years prior the
company that actually manages the
hospital we own other hospitals that
they manage so that's how we got to Las
Cruces
okay so and I kind of
thing you have these conversations there
was
there was direct you know these kids
that has to be
um
brought to council it has to get decided
on when you are having these
conversations it was a known fact that
it could or could not go either way then
correct oh absolutely no absolutely
we're we're if you guys choose not to do
it we'll just we'll just choose not to
build it I mean it's no harm no sound
like you guys don't want to do it don't
do it okay I just
um just trying to clarify to make sure
that
you know I don't want anything to have
been a promise that isn't promisable for
anybody no no we work with cities all
the time it's a very logical thing in a
very logical site to do especially with
a big investment in a hospital there a
lot of infrastructure needs to go in and
other
s and you have a developer
and has a financial wherewithal which we
had to give them our financials so the
city knows that they have the financial
review
uh to do it but like I said uh
everything is up to council for approval
in cities and if they don't want to do
it we'll just we'll find something most
of it
that timeline
um no I totally understand thank you uh
one of the questions that I have and
this might be best answered by staff
um you know in my district I have I
actually have one of the hospitals in my
district we have lots of Office
Buildings in the area I imagine with a
brand new Boutique hospital
um you're going to want to see probably
medical offices that was in your list as
well
um we did our projections did and when
we were looking at those jobs did we
account for any of the fact of how many
businesses might be shifting over to the
new Zone and how many jobs that would be
so not all these jobs are going to be
new jobs some places are going to shift
over and I wonder if we've done any
analysis on that
yes I don't know Mandy do you want to
answer that I know I know we have
um and there will be some accretion of
people moving over that are already in
the district in the city of Las Cruces I
mean obviously it'd be a perfect world
of every single job was new uh I can
tell you at least speaking from the
hospital standpoint that you know before
building this we had an enormous amount
of data that we went through to evaluate
and it was determined that the demand
for medical services uh
was there to build a whole new hospital
and staff a whole new hospital now
there'll be people doctors will move
back and forth and that's just the way
the medical community works but this was
not building the fact that hey we're
just going to steal business from the
existing Hospital there was huge demand
and shortfalls of El Paso that needed
other beds that they can't even meet
their demand in their own Market as well
and so and then others I mean we've
spoke with Virgin Galactic I mean
they're new to town they want to have a
make a home here and have a nice
location this is the location that they
thought was very appealing to them if
you create a live work play model like
this currently they have some old
warehouse space that they use in town
and then they allow their people office
out at the at White Sands out there so
they would like to have something like
this there's I'm not saying that that's
going to come a version but that's the
types of groups we've been working with
that want to move jobs here okay and
those would be new jobs
okay and so and this is for staff then I
in fact that has to have an impact if we
do have
businesses like that moving into the
area that does affect our GRT then in
the end correct
absolutely absolutely a city please
weigh in
it absolutely will
with economic development uh yes and
actually part of the financial analysis
uh some of the market studies and
projections that were provided by Zach
and his team
um the financial analysts felt like
there wasn't enough
um focus on the net new jobs and so I
think that that's what you're talking
about is net new jobs and net new
um tax revenue uh so that was one of the
things that we're asking to make changes
to and in the second version of the
analysis we felt like they better
address that question
um there the market studies here is
something there's again pent up demand
for several of types of Industry uh and
I would like to say that that's part of
the reason the tid statutes in the state
allow the tid to earn up to 75 of the
GRT Improvement
um but because we knew that there would
be some impact to what was it we
actually asked them to roll it up to the
70 which is why we have 70 percent of
the GRT going to tid and 30 staying with
the city because we knew there would be
some
um some moving although most of it would
be new
um what was that final total that they
gave that we could see for that impact
for the GRT
can you I'm sorry I'm not sure what what
was the final kind of estimate that
um they gave us that we might see
impacted on that GRT in the end the
performa for what would be moving over
is that what you're yes yes
um and I think that was that chart was
in their presentations after you okay
again can you put that up I think that
would probably be the best way that
question
okay
recurring GRT
uh so that's the 2.6 million recurring
on an annual basis and obviously once
this is all paid off it all goes to the
city
um but I think the thing we're missing
here too is is that you know of these
tid dollars spent like man you said
these are only actuals I mean we're
giving you numbers looking out saying
okay we're gonna do all this buildable
garages
when we do these things if there's
additional tid revenues coming in so
let's say that we build everything out
it only costs 20 million well we'll have
two or two million three million dollars
of tip that's not needed to pay off the
infrastructure on an annual basis that
can go to do other things so like
Optical park or some of these other Road
benefits we can do that I mean obviously
we want to cover the actual cost of the
infrastructure first but if there's
additional revenues created here then
that can go to do other things it should
it just pays only actual so it's not
like the developer is getting any of
this money
okay thank you
um that I think my next question is for
City staff but when we were working then
on uh this project I know
um did we have any set of consultation
with um businesses in the surrounding
area asking if they would uh want to be
a part of this
did we engage in any of that type of
conversation
uh mayor and counselor stuvee we we did
not have conversation with businesses
the um the boundaries are set by are
come forward from the applicant and so
that's that's where that came from
so to answer that question more more
specifically uh exactly let's see what
happens exactly yeah this is exactly
yeah when you jump on like that even
though we can see you I want you to
Envision that the person writing the
taking the note taking is not watching
the video so if you would mind every
time you anyone jumps on if they could
just identify themselves okay hey so
it's Zach again so to answer that more
specifically uh most of the businesses
are around a tid would not want to be
part of a tin now some of the ten
dollars could be spent to to help with
um
um public infrastructure maybe in other
areas around the Ted but the only way
taxes are traded here is by the
increment increase in taxes
so the tax base is so low on this
property today that new development will
greatly increase that increment if you
took for example a project across the
street the only way for them to create
any income and be a party to this is for
their taxes to go up
so existing businesses and around in and
around this area it will not behoove
them to do it unless they want their
taxes to go up because that's the only
way they create any increment does that
make sense yes I had a
um I mean that's that's why an existing
business probably wouldn't want their
business to be in this because that
their taxes have to go up to create any
income for something like this yes I had
an email with
um concerns about local businesses not
being included so that's why they're
they're looking at the other side saying
that they would want revitalization so
that's why I'm bringing it up
um and and some of these dollars if
there's overflow ten dollars those
dollars could go to pay for public
improvements within those districts as
well I mean at the end of the day the
tit is the city's money
uh that if there's overflows after the
infrastructure here is paid for but like
I said those individual businesses their
taxes would have to be raised for them
to generate any money so I think they're
aware of that okay
um Council and Council this is Mandy um
Gus again to address that question the
public infrastructure um that would be
put into this area I think would bring
value to the surrounding areas as well
that revitalization because there'll be
more connectivity as the roads are put
in there'll be more green space the
parks will be closer and some of those
Trails will be there
um so I I do just like in the Apodaca
blueprint it's beneficial to the
surrounding areas as well
okay thank you
um you talked about Mandy you talked
about
um us asking for different things that
you're negotiating uh what were some of
the terms that we asked for that were
not accepted
um counselor stupid this is Mandy again
when you say not expected
um some of our that we asked for
different things during negotiations on
this
um tid and that some were accepted some
are not what were some of the items that
weren't accepted
um okay sorry so uh counselor stuvet
some of the items we talked about for
example were the public emphasis the
infrastructure that's been put in
already
um and and I I don't think not accepted
is the is probably I shouldn't have said
that the way that I did um it was the
negotiation piece when we originally
talked about
um the infrastructure that's already
there
um for example the city staff was
comfortable with all of Samaritan Drive
um being paid for by the tid because
it's crucial to the development of the
entire area but we were not comfortable
with heart and mercy both of which were
taken out one of the negotiation points
was Legacy C drive and at first we felt
like Legacy probably didn't make sense
but as we looked at the long-term plan
that is a main connector for the rest of
the development so we we left Legacy in
there
um some of the other negotiation points
we talked about that net new jobs and
how that impacted the GRT
um we looked at projections for bringing
it as low as 65 percent
um part that the come the negotiation
back at that point was could we do 75
for the first 10 years and 65 percent
for the remainder of the tid
um City staff didn't feel like that that
would be difficult to to maintain that
would be more difficult for us to follow
which is where we came to that 70 number
um I believe very early on in the
discussion we talked about the
appointees to the government the tid
board
um and if I remember correctly
originally it was a request for three
developer appointees and we felt like
that was not
um a fair representation and it made
more sense to go to from the city and to
from the developer and then we would
have
um as per state statute that DFA so
that's one of the negotiation points
that we we went back and forth on
um
uh and and then looking at the
operations and maintenance agreement
some of the items that we we talked
about
um were related to
um how we pay that off and the uh the
amount of time and if there was an
interest on
um if it was due over time
um and so we talked about that rate and
I think we ended up leaving that which
is at a four percent rate which is
um which is standard
um so those were some of the different
negotiation points that we've had over
the last six months
thank you
um you talked about
um oh uh counselor stupid sorry one more
item that
um I'd like to point out
um is that after our last
um
city council meeting the question came
up of improvements outside of the tid
and in the last couple of weeks we've
talked with Zach and his team about
adding to the tid plan that Solano
Madrid and some Apodaca Park
improvements so that they could be again
once that infrastructure is paid off if
the increment is greater than projected
uh tid funds could be used for
improvements on Solano Madrid and
Apodaca Park
thank you and we keep saying could be
used for would that be specified in the
contracts that if there are extra then
this is what it will be used for or it
just is it left kind of vague that it
could be used for but if we aren't here
do we have
uh the way that uh the plan and to
development works is that it gives us
the tip board the ability to reimburse
for those items and not for any other
item so if those items do not get built
then the money doesn't ever go out it
doesn't reimburse them so we have to
those agreements allow for those
improvements to be paid for
okay thank you
um and I'm gonna just touch upon the
parking lot issue real fast
um how much does it cost to maintain
that lot should the developments or the
tid not work and we get control over how
much would that cost the city per year
so counselor stupid I don't know that
number off of the top of my head I don't
know if
um Public Works director or interim
director Davidson deal might have that
number if not we can get it to you okay
another time
thank you
um
and given I think with this new turn of
events um obviously when you put in your
application in January it was a whole
different scenario than we're at right
now
um
how is it looking as far as
um building you know this infrastructure
and looking at new businesses coming in
that are all in a very similar category
of offices and that type of you know
retail those sort of things hospitals
even have limitations right now too in
some ways um have we taken those types
of things into effect and what types of
challenges might you see in the future
with that
I'll answer that this is Zach so we're
we're seeing I mean we're in 11
different markets currently where we're
actively building projects
um and our own projects and we see it as
a temporary
um we see that there actually be a use
for more office space in the future than
less
uh you know in the short term here when
when uh there's uh there's no uh
uh solution in sight as far as for a
cure for it or uh you know to get uh
vaccinations for it it seems like a long
way out but talking with industry
leaders
um there there will be more demand
because over a 20-year time frame the
average use square footage used per
person in an office went from about 450
feet per person for office space down to
about 175.
so as as companies have to continue to
try to put more and more people in the
same size office uh you've seen those
numbers uh really decrease as far as my
space and we just think that people
aren't the the days of having a desk
where you go to work and everyone plugs
in and they're all shoulder to shoulder
like a lot of companies do currently is
going to go by the wayside
we also think that
um we're building other hospitals and
things like that too and we see the
demand being high there is going to be a
huge
uh pent up demand for procedures that
haven't been added or have been delayed
for this six-month period of time
because of covid so there's going to be
a huge backlog of demand at hospitals in
the near future to get those procedures
done
um yeah you know they they say they're
voluntary but there are a lot of them
aren't really voluntary and then you
just put them off
uh and so those are two I think retail
is going to suffer for a long time but
most of the retail we're showing in this
plan is service retail
so it's it's a grocery store please get
your hair cut dry cleaning quick service
restaurant things like that there's not
a lot of big box retail in our plan and
so we think big box retail will suffer
but we also the other big part of our
plan is senior and market rate housing
and we think there's a huge demand in
that Las Cruces in the future so and
none of our projects that we're building
anywhere have slowed down or changed our
time frame uh to deliver those projects
in the United States you're doing
working so
counselor stuvet this is this is Jake if
you don't mind if I add in a little bit
of the local perspective on that on that
site specific I think counselor sword
mentioned it earlier about those some of
the businesses around there maybe being
lost to this we manage and lease and
have for well over 10 years the
Albertsons Anchorage shopping center
across the street from this we manage at
least for another property at three
crosses that has Southwest food and a 99
cent store I can tell you verbatim from
those owners they are hoping and praying
that this thing comes along because it
takes a drive through that Center on
Albertsons to see what the recent
tenants we've stuck in there has been a
vape shop there's a dollar store the
people backfilling these centers in this
area of town are not necessarily the
ones that maybe are the most appealing
and it continues to go like that so the
genius and what I think the biggest
thing that Zach and then bring to the
table and what this tit allows is for
them to create their own uh demand
internally to that um building another
Wendy's across the street are slowly
doing it over time is was mentioned
earlier as an opportunity is not an
opportunity it's an opportunity to
continue to do what we have done for the
past 10 years here um and I think that a
lot of a lot of residents a lot of folks
who I talk with and work with are asking
when's when are we going to get
something different unique something
that we see whenever we travel a little
bit something we see when we go around
other larger markets and here's the
opportunity to do that if not like I
said just just drive through that
shopping center across the street and
you know you can get the idea of what
the tenant mix has been for this area
for quite some time
thank you
um thank you mayor at the time that's
all the questions I have
okay thank you counselor mayor Pro tem
Gandara
thank you so much Bandy Dr Martinez Zach
um and my Italian
colleagues that have asked asked
questions much of my questions are have
been answered um and and let me just
start by saying that one of my first
questions was
um like who are you who are you as a
developer are there any local
um you know
um partners because I want someone who
loves this community like I love this
community right and I want like Zach
um excuse me
um Jake just mentioned
um you know what uh looking at Las
Cruces but in a different way I'm
promoting it um because it's a beautiful
city right
um
and so
um I appreciate hearing you know
um who you are Zach and what you've been
able to accomplish the 11 markets that
you're that you're um that you're in
currently
um to me that's really helpful so just
so you know I'm about five blocks if you
go north on Solano
um from that area if I go through the
back way I'm probably like a 10 minute
drive or 10 minute walk and so I walk a
lot up there to get to the Trevis path
so
um you know I raised my kids here I love
the community I live in I often say you
know people say why don't you move
somewhere else you know and I will and I
I don't because I love
um where I live
um and so I I want you to know that I
think
um you've gotten caught up in a process
that I wished and I think you and your
staff or your colleagues were here a
couple of weeks ago to hear sort of the
the concerns that my colleagues have
about just sort of hearing about this
and
um having to read and sift through you
know 500 plus documents understanding
right to be a tax expert a realtor
developer and and right and so um I've
appreciated staff coming back and really
hunkering down and explaining and you
explaining some of the things to really
under understand
um and so for me
um I definitely want for there to be an
expansion of the boundaries if you're
considering that I might consider voting
yes because because of what this brings
and and um to the community in terms of
Redevelopment
um
um re um
residential like re revitalization right
um that the apalaka blueprint um
suggests and so for me it's essential
that we bring up that Community right I
live here I know I know where the
potholes are I know where the issues are
where the tagging is
um and I want to make sure that we build
up this community and not just a portion
of this community
um and expanding those boundaries to me
would be super helpful so that we really
meet the elements to the abavaka
blueprint and so I'm going to remind
people of that blueprint
um excuse me on page 30 it speaks to
character corridors kind of what the the
the what I think the improvements need
to be around
um Madrid and
um and so
on East Madrid Avenue North Solano and
so I I want my question is is to staff
about
given what the blueprint indicates on
page 30 like drainage building and
revitalizing of the country club
what elements have been met or will be
met through this kid
foreign
yes yes mayor um councilor Gander mayor
Pro tem excuse me doctor I'm starting to
hear some uh feed some um noise if
everyone commute their phones maybe even
asked specifically I don't know Randy if
you're muted your phone if you could
just keep your phone and computers muted
until you speak that would really help
out a lot please
sorry about that thank you mayor mayor
Pro tem
um unfortunately we have no details of
those of those questions that you're
asking uh the land use is the specific
items are part of the Pud and because it
is a PUD active application that has
been handled by Community Development
um we don't have those details to be
discussed however when that PUD
I'm sorry can you hear me again yes okay
um when the Pud application is finalized
um the the Community Development staff
will bring this item before you and so
you'll have an opportunity to review
foreign
I'm sorry my internet I don't know why
it's uh it's uh
freezing but you will have city council
will have an opportunity to review every
single land use that is being proposed
in this development
um as Mandy mentioned before all the
concerns that were
um passed on to us related to the Pud
have been sent to Community Development
we had a meeting with Community
Development staff about those questions
and we will make sure that
um the developer is also aware of those
concerns and that the process within the
Pud takes place and address the public
benefit and the land uses that that
you're talking about also mayor pretem I
also want to remind us all that for the
benefits outside the boundary the
boundaries don't have to be expanded but
they can be included in the tid plan
which would allow those projects to be
addressed such as Madrid and Solano
Street
okay thank you Dr Martinez so
negotiating in it I understand that but
that doesn't it's like at the tail end
oh if we make more and there's some
additional we'll be able this to
um
focus our time and attention on on those
on those particular items that I think
are important
um I just to me it doesn't make sense
when you talk about complete streets and
and the the the the the the
you know connecting right the
connectivity from one the district to
the the the the the entire
um
um space or the land that that that
we're talking about that is adjacent to
it
um I'm having a hard time
um
I'm having a hard time with this so are
we able can we negotiate the increase in
that because I tell you
um one of my biggest concerns is going
down Camino Del Rex and seeing Camino
Circle I think that's the name of it
look at the conditions of that street
you're going to want to have a beautiful
hospital by the way sorry I wasn't able
to take on
um you wanted to give me a tour I was so
busy and and I'm I'm up for that
um using my face mask and whatnot to get
over there and really see it's beautiful
it's gorgeous I've walked I mean
numerous times
um and seen um the the beauty of it
um I just can't imagine
that we would Revitalize in that way and
not do some of the things that I feel
are necessary like opalaca Park all the
drainage that is connected and I get
that with the Pud and those areas so um
I it is that like a
could you look at increasing the bounded
so this is this is Zach can I yourself
can I jump in real quick sure
um I I would say
um absolutely we could look at those we
would be willing to put that in the tid
um like I said you would want to throw
in specific areas or public improvements
that could be done over time I guess
we're not when I'm saying that if
there's money in the future we'll do it
we've first we'd have to make sure that
we cover our debt uh that we put in
which we're putting a lighted
intersection in the benefits everybody
we're putting in the roads within the
property but to spend money in Apodaca
park or other Camino Del rex or other
improvements that need to be put in I
mean we can put in that on any year if
there's a surplus of money as those
monies could be used to cover costs to
do those improvements
um I just wouldn't want to not you know
based on what we're doing here the
increment created with the private
investment is what's going to get the
dollars uh to the city for taxes
um I would just say that we would want
to make sure that we covered you know
any indebtedness we had to cover those
costs but if you look at the numbers or
show there shows a surplus on an annual
basis if we build this large of a
project we'd be happy to see if there's
a surplus those dollars could be used to
go and do some of these other
person I just don't think you want to
throw in other private Leon development
areas you want to make those other areas
that you could do it outside of this tin
boundary you'd want to call them off
specifically what public improvements
those would be
I understand I understand but I I mean
they answer a simple answer to what you
said is yes we hear you and we we love
coming to Las Cruces as well we do have
we do have local partners that love the
city of Las Cruces which I'm glad they
could join us today and talk
and uh we would be willing to do uh
other projects as long as the funding is
there to do them
thank you thank you for that
um I think
um in terms of counselor Source
questions around an analysis
um I've and mayor I don't know if you
want to you know go into this I think
the Run of my
um my commentary is is probably around
property
um the Pud and I and I know that we we
shouldn't get into the specifics but I'm
I am concerned and want to make sure
that um that that area isn't continuing
to be on septic I had heard
um Through the Grapevine that there are
some pieces
um
or properties that are still in septic
and want to make sure that that is
getting taken care of or is that
accurate or not I I don't know
um and and obviously that's a concern to
me
um yeah it and it's mostly
um
more about the conditions of a lot of
the the streets and um the property if
you will inside that
um proposed head and outside of it
um I I get more often than not lots of
complaints about the dead weeds the dead
trees
um I I just want to be clear that um you
know I think we want to be um good
property owners and I think that's one
of the things that definitely needs to
be needs to be worked on but um mayor my
other questions are more about analysis
like do you know financial analysis the
economic analysis what Provisions are in
place in terms of having
performance measures attached to each of
these conditions or or the
infrastructure to be built and then
lastly
um I think housing housing is really
important you made mention of
um senior housing
um and and the like and I I think that
affordable housing is something that is
so important to me that we need to
really really consider and I hope that
you're considering that as you as you
move forward
um with this
proposal so mayor can we get or I don't
know do you wanna I guess hear from
others to get I would prefer uh mayor
Pro tem that that be towards the end
after uh Connie and Eva speak and then
the others because it's very possible
that some of that may actually come up
and then we'll just use that towards the
end because uh actually that was one of
the questions that I had so that's
probably wouldn't be bad if we can use
it towards the end
okay all right thank you that that's all
for now
okay thank you counselor Flores and then
Council pin Como
uh before I begin Dr Martinez did you
have something else you wanted to say or
you just forgot to put your hand down
okay all right downstairs Flores
thank you Mr Mayor uh this is Yvonne
from Modest counselor Flores and first I
would like to address
um some maybe housekeeping issues here
um I need a lot of clarify there has to
be a lot of clarification on what we're
doing here today
um the title of what our Council action
executive summary says States is a
resolution declaring the intent to
consider for adoption the approving of
the formation of the royal Crossing tax
increment development District are
proving subject to further proceedings
of the city council a tax increment
development plan for the district
identifying the purpose of the district
the rate of any property tax increment
financing mechanisms and gross receipts
tax increments and property tax
increments proposed to secure bonds
loans advances or any other indebtedness
incurred by the district
so then
um you move on to the next page which is
the resolution resolution 20 hyphen 176
and it uh doesn't exactly mirror the
um the proposed work we're supposed to
be doing here today but the resolution
is a resolution declaring the intent to
consider for adoption the approving of
the formation of the royal Crossing tax
increment development District approving
subject to further proceedings of the
city council a tax increment development
plan for the district identifying the
purpose of the district the rate of any
property tax
um and and
gross receipts tax increments and
property tax increments from
post-secured proposed to secure bonds
loans advances or any
um other indebtedness by the district
that pretty much mirrors uh what we
announced however
two yes
we're we're not disc we're not doing
that today that's actually
um that's on my agenda setting for our
July 6 meeting all we're having here
today is just a work session to discuss
the pit application
okay we're talk okay let's go to the tit
application that's what I'm getting at
so
um excuse me so I thank you for
correcting
um where we're where we're at uh
procedurally
but in so far as the substance goes it
still applies
to
um what I'm saying is Jermaine uh
substantively to what we're doing here
today
and
um
so
um
we're here just to talk about it your
honor we're here not to say let's move
it over for a vote for the for an action
on July 6th
right so counselor
um let me use this as an example
um you know that I have discussed in the
past using a tid for the El Paseo
project right right imagine if all of a
sudden I just out of the blue
um or you know how I've done on Fridays
I I do emergency Proclamation and next
thing you know on Monday you guys are
going to vote for a tip okay and you
guys haven't had any public discussion
nobody really knows much about it you
know I've been working with staff so so
in a roundabout way what we're here
today is trying to kind of uh at least
get some type of information out to the
public and then letting the public speak
that's why we're doing everything and I
and I think we have to get information
for ourselves to your honor and and
that's why I'm bringing this and whether
we vote on it or not is not really well
it I mean I was little vote's going to
be taken today I was wrong yeah okay
fine I was wrong about that but uh
insofar as the resolution itself goes
and and that goes to
um whether we even take it to a vote on
next week I don't know
um but it says uh the third uh whereas a
state's pursuant to an MSA 1978 sections
five hyphen 5 hyphen six upon adoption
or resolution indicating intent to form
a tax increment development District the
governing body of a municipality shall
set a date no sooner than 30 days and no
later than 60 days after the adoption of
the resolution for a public hearing
regarding the formation of the district
and then goes on to another whereas then
when you go to the um
so therefore's
um
it uh there are two there fours the
first one uh says the that the petition
and application is shown exhibit a
attached here to and made part of this
resolution are accepted
are hereby accepted subject further
subject to further review and any
necessary negotiations between City
staff and the petitions and the reason
I'm going through that your honor please
forgive me but please allow me is that
the attached application was deficient
it did not have it did it does not have
the
um
certain uh certain tabs it didn't have
tabs two three and four and so far as
the petition goes and then
um what I want to point out is that the
section
um the petition and application so it's
page 12. counselor what I was going to
say is I would prefer us not even
discuss that let me tell you why because
that hasn't been that hasn't been
advertised and and when you're bringing
something that that's a future item to
to the whole Council it's not that's not
no I'm not I I I I I I would just I hope
we will just focus on this we're talking
about the sum and substance of what
we're talking about
I'm talking about what the resolution is
all about that's what we're talking
about yes we're talking about some of
the details but some of the form is
deficient so okay but but I would prefer
you just take that up with stat
privately because because this hasn't
been advertised what's your what you're
discussing is going to be for our July
6th meeting and I'm gonna I'm gonna set
the agenda after this work session and
and I understand what you're coming from
what you're saying is but but you're
discussing something that very few
people have actually have read this have
you even seen it and it's not we're not
we're not we shouldn't do that we
shouldn't be talking about something
that the rest of the members of the
public has not seen to me you know
people have been calling a Chicken and
the Egg I I call it putting the the uh
the cart before the horse so
um you know my concern is is substantive
it's it's not just form and it's getting
I'm not saying it isn't I'm just asking
if you don't mind taking that directly
to to legal and the management team but
if you focus on what your concerns are
a side of that on this on this um so
what are so tell me exactly what we're
discussing today we're expressing our
concerns and our frustrations and we're
not looking at the language that we're
working from or with we're trying to
find out exactly what uh the developers
are proposing and what
um what type of infrastructure they're
looking to do and what type of monies
are going to either go back to the
general fund and or back to help
reimburse the developer and then there's
also going to be a presentation from
members of the neighborhood association
that want to share their concerns with
this tit and why uh just you know their
concerns okay so okay then online
my my concern who are all these
are all of them
so thank you
um so this is
Mr vegart or vegert or forgive me for
mispronouncing your name let me ask my
question and then I will direct my
question to you if you'd like or whoever
but let me finish my question please do
not interrupt
um with all due respect
um so
um who who is the land of enchantment
here it's really interesting we have Las
Cruces land LLC Las Cruces land
investment vasculosis m-o-b I don't
think you you could even identify that
when someone asked you and then there's
Las Cruces Hospital building LLC and
then we have you as the person who's
signing off on all the documents so who
are these people and and you know I mean
we're not the SEC so we don't have the
authors we're not doing a you know
pierce the corporate veil hearing type
here but who are the individuals who are
these people we're dealing with and why
can't that be okay would you be able to
provide that since you're you're the one
and can you give us the corporation uh
and state of incorporation was it
Delaware was it Nebraska was it New
Mexico under which laws you Incorporated
I'd like to see all of that there's just
a a lot here that just doesn't doesn't
could you answer that question Mr Beaker
yeah absolutely so LC land and LC land
investment was split up the 76 Acres was
split up into two parcels and owned by
different Parcels because of the
opportunity Zone so when you put your
deferred taxes into an entity we had to
set up an additional entity to put our
opportunities of monies into
we are the 50 owner in both of those and
the other owners are Randy who's on the
call in Dennis crimmins he joined 25
percent
Okay so
sweet
me
you're the only owner you're you're an
LLC I am the controlling party of
Goldenrod companies is the control and
partying owner of the 50 percent
so these llc's these corporations are a
one-person Corporation there's no
there's no memories
we create I don't know how you guys do
real estate there but we created an spe
a special purpose entity for every real
estate project we do it's the most
common real estate counselor Flores
let's let's why don't we do this why
don't we start by each one that you had
start with your first question on the
LLC which one you mentioned you already
mentioned LC Lan and LC investment you
had some others let's go one by one and
see if Mr weeder would be willing to
share with us who are the members or the
investors in those LLCs
first of all Mr V thank you Mr Mayor Mr
veger m-o-b
what does mop stand for
medical office building so the building
half of the hospital that we built the
end of that that is a medical office
building the one that's at the other end
yeah so it's it's connected to the
hospital it looks like one big building
but there's technically two buildings
there there's the hospital and an MLB
those are owned in the Golden Rod
uh Capital Partners Fund which I'm the
general partner of in the controlling
party of
and we own uh 75 percent
and the other is individual owners such
as the management company and your
individual doctors that are in the
investment
so
um it's you and then some minor players
like investors we're the majority we're
the majority partner in every entity
that you've named
does the LLC have to report does an LLC
have LLC have port to
um to the SEC or is the SEC are you
accountable to the SEC Securities my
fund is an SEC registered fund so uh my
fund is but not in the llc's and they're
Nebraska
llc's that's the my state of Domo style
so those LLCs are all Nebraska LLCs
so is there a governing agency over the
llc's in Nebraska
I mean you have to turn to the state to
keep your entities in good standing on
an annual basis but
usually the Secretary of State
right they send you a form each year and
they say if you're entity or your LLC is
in good standing we I personally
probably have 75 llc's similar to this
okay
and then as far as the uh LC land
investment
[Music]
so LC land and LC land investment like
you said we owned that is owned 50 by
Goldenrod
and 25 by Randy who's on the call and 25
by Dennis crimmins whose White Sands
construction they're in town
are the owners of that we had to create
a second entity there so originally it
was just LC land when we put in an
opportunity Zone the opportunity Zone
has to have its own entity so that's
when we created LC Lan Investments
okay
so they're it's just a tax reporting
thing that's why there's two enemies
there
well those are all my all my questions
for today
[Music]
today Mr zeiger we
Mr Mayor this is Kendra ringenberg um I
just wanted to make one point of
clarification to on Zach's point the the
entities are actually New Mexico
entities other than oh I'm sorry Kendra
I didn't I'm sorry I missed we formed
them in New Mexico and so they're under
the Secretary of State in Mexico oh
there you go then it's easy to look up
I'm sorry usually we do them in our home
state but on these I guess because yeah
we because of the because of the
business transaction we felt it was
better more appropriate to be in New
Mexico
that's my attorney so I'm sorry yeah I
apologize Kendra ringenberg
Kendra regenberg and uh what
corporations are filed here
um the Las Cruces Hospital Las Cruces
medical MLB LC land LC land investment
or also
I apologize uh councilwoman I I usually
do them in our home state but we must
not at this time
important
okay thank you very much uh attorney
Rena bird
no problem
okay so that's it
yes thank you Mr Mayor I will go Mandy
did you have another comment
and you guys yes yes
um sorry uh mayor uh councilor Flores I
I just wanted to address the first
question that you are asking counselor
Flores about
um what are we doing and what items were
you looking at and so I'm going to share
my screen I hope that you can see this
um we what will be coming to on Monday
and what was
um tabled by Council two weeks ago was
the resolution of intent
um for this item uh which inspired by
Statute it's Again non-binding by the
council but it made the application
available for public review and so that
will that then allow us to schedule that
public hearing that we discussed on
which August 17th
um and so we've we've done this work
session because there were more
questions
um two weeks ago at Council that that
led to the tabling of the item so we
wanted to make sure they had the
opportunity to talk through uh more
specifics on the tid
um
that that resolution of intent will have
to be adopted
um and the resolution of intent well you
you talked about the um the attachments
and so those should all be there as well
you said that there were some
attachments missing and and you were
right when I uploaded them originally
two weeks ago I failed to attach those
Market studies
um but I've worked with city clerk to
make sure those are attached they should
be attached both in the work session
packet as well as the tabled item for
next week so if you're still not seeing
them I'd be happy
um to talk to you and provide those to
you
so okay I'll I'll
um I'll ask the city clerk and you
um and not take up the council's time in
Mr mayor's time and everybody else but I
do have other questions about just
just procedurally yeah but thank you
thank you Miss Gus thank you so much for
your presentation as well thank you yeah
thank you Mandy and councilor it's not
that we don't want the time it's just
that it wasn't advertised as such and
you really shouldn't be discussing it so
okay
um councilman Cuomo and then counselor
Vasquez
thank you Mr Mayor um this is
um and thanks everyone for your
presentations and for giving us your
afternoon
um Zach and your colleagues I appreciate
you answering answering all these
questions
um I personally see a lot of favorable
things in this
um and I also see a lot of concern a lot
of concerning things like my some of my
colleagues
um and that's because we're hearing from
our constituents right and and trying to
listen best to people's concerns I
actually also live very close to this
property I live at the Albertsons red
cross the street is my grocery store
um so I think
um I definitely want to try to listen to
the folks that are um around the area
honestly to be honest with you one of my
biggest concerns is that
um this land will attract a lot of big
box stores that then will harm a lot of
our small business Community
um you know we're not you know we're a
small City if we're not a super big city
um I think we already have a ton of
stores like Walmarts and things like
that right that ultimately end up
harming um small businesses
um and so I'm concerned that that's some
of the attraction that will come to this
very desirable land
um so I mean I don't right like I don't
I don't even know what the question is
there but I think I just want to name
that concern for you
um that I'm definitely hearing from a
lot of folks around the community
um and then just you know I think given
that we're still in the middle of a
pandemic by no means he'll read near the
end of this I think that there's a lot
of businesses on top of that that are
feeling very anxious and very frustrated
about
um so much of what has happened and
maybe this next question is more for Dr
Martinez or man or Mandy um in terms of
how have you been addressing some of
these concerns that I've been receiving
that I'm sure you have too around their
field there being a lot of feelings
around town around some perhaps
um you know that there's
that this project perhaps favors
um this big entity from out of state as
opposed to reinvestment in current
um small businesses as we're going
through this pandemic that are really
struggling
um and I you know I'm not much of an
either or thinker I'm very much a both
and thinker and I think that there's
very very much opportunity to do some
both and projects in terms of how do we
redevelop how do we develop not even
redevelop right this land is vacant it's
earning nobody anything so how do we
develop responsibly
um a piece of property while also
ensuring that small businesses in our
community who are currently struggling
or feeling are also feeling supported so
um Dr Martinez do you I don't have you
been receiving some of these concerns
and how are you addressing some of that
thank you
thank you grisela Martinez for the
record thank you councilor brinkova for
that question
um we have compiled the the about 14
pages of questions from
um public input up to Friday afternoon
and with
um addressed them in different ways as
we mentioned before the ones specific to
the land use have been referred to
Community Development for those to be
considered as part of the negotiation
elements to that for the ones uh related
to the worst case scenarios we have
worked with our external uh legal
choose again
can you hear me yeah you did fortunately
you just freeze for about two seconds
three seconds it's just giving you a
break mayor
um for the for the
elements related to the worst case
scenarios that our external legal
advisors pointed out to us
we've added Provisions that protect the
city in that regard
um from the small business perspective
in our community as I've mentioned
before in the last two or three months
that is one of my areas of Focus right
now and it will continue to be because
our local businesses are very important
for our community not only for the
specific creation of businesses but they
are the creators of the jobs in our
community and so
we understand the the extra burden that
they're going through right now and
we're working towards putting programs
in place to to alleviate some of the
issues including the technical
assistance that will lead to access to
Capital we are working in a partnership
with Arrowhead Center at NMSU to provide
a business accelerator for businesses
local businesses that can they can and
we're focusing on Service uh businesses
as well as those that can do goods and
products and so
um we're we're ensuring we're aiming at
providing Alternatives that these
businesses can either expand uh to New
Markets that they can transition to
e-commerce and making sure that they can
work through the different challenges
that resources may may lead to if they
don't
um understand what the process is to
access SBA resources or some other
resources in our community so we're
working on that as well in parallel to
this
um and also
um the due diligence that we have been
doing with this process
um it it reflects
um with focus on the economic impact of
of the overall project with
um as I mentioned at the beginning of my
presentation the level of investment
that will come into our community uh
would be
um very unique to this project and the
number of jobs created from this
um specific project as well
um and and the perception of this
favoring the developer
um I mean this is a big number in terms
of of the increment
um but as as it's been said before if
there is no increment there is no
reimbursement to the developer it is
also important to highlight that as Zach
has mentioned this is a share ownership
and part of the ownership it's local and
so even though the the funding and the
investment component is from outside the
stage which is a plus from our
perspective because it is funding that
was not here otherwise
uh it is also important to see the
connection to the local market and to
the local businesses which is
represented here by Mr MacMillan and uh
right Farm
does that answer your question
councilman yeah very much thank you Dr
Martinez and I think I think you have
done a really powerful job leading this
department and I want to make sure that
um you know those relationships that
you've been able to build and rebuild
with our business Community are not
harmed with any of these sort of
decisions right so I think it's
important to just bring some of those
things up
um
in terms of you had mentioned actually
if you want to stay on Dr Martinez you
had mentioned on the very early part of
the presentation that I noted
um that part of the comprehensive plan I
think was to one of the priorities was
to partner with property owners on
vacant land for infill opportunities
right
um what are I mean I think you've named
some of the other ways if that's
possible or other things here explored
or and then you said tit is really the
only way to do this or
um have some of those things not yet
been explored here
thank you counselor Ben Como
um it's a twofold answer there
um one of the areas that we want to
continue to Pro or we see as a priority
from city council
um through not only the comprehensive
plan but also through the conversations
that we've had in the past
um it's to continue to promote
investment opportunities for
redevelopment
um and and so that was reflected in the
in Elevate Las Cruces and we think that
um those are the wishes of the city
council I'm gonna re read some of the
goals that are included in comprehensive
plan and so for instance uh cp211 it
says to utilize creative incentive tools
such as tid and qualified opportunity
zones to Spur development and investment
um
cp212 says educate developers investors
and Community leaders about development
tools as stats incentives such as States
and qualified opportunity zones for
opportunity zones when they were
created actually when when we received
the notice that five census tracts in
our community were defined as
opportunity zones we were very pleased
because we saw that as an opportunity
for private investment to come into our
community which what is the the very
reason why opportunity zones was created
to our knowledge no other opportunities
Zone has come to fruition in our
community and and that is unfortunate
because it's money that it hasn't come
into into the hands um just spending
funds for the options in in terms of
what has been explored as Mandy
mentioned in the beginning of the
presentation other options where is
explore when we first sat down with the
developer and tit was the mechanism that
made more sense based on the type of
development and based on the type of
project this was
thank you um Dr Martinez
um and then can you just clarify one
last thing for me I can't remember the
the governance part you there is
definitely two
um representatives from the city right
does that mean staff or does that mean
City Council
or both
I'm gonna pass down that uh answer that
question to Mandy Gus
you're gonna put yours on mute
you're good
uh thank you counselor Ben Como this is
Mandy guest again from Economic
Development
um I think the question you had was
about governance is that correct
um so the way that it is worded is that
there will be two um appointees from the
developer and two appointees from the
city it does not have to be it would be
at our discretion if we wanted those to
be elected officials or staff
um but the one so that so there would be
four appointees to the board and then
the representative from the Department
of Finance Authority
um and then what we have are
recommending is that there be a
non-voting member on the board which is
a city employee
um to be the treasurer of that board
right right and when you say it would be
our discretion what does that mean staff
or city council there would be similar
to any other uh committees that are
formed there would have to be an
application process and then city
council and the mayor would make that
appointment
um at least for me I think I would feel
important that it'd be at least one
counselor out of those two
representatives for sure
um thank you Mandy um I just have a
couple more questions
um Zach my other question is for you are
you still with us I noticed you turned
your camera off but
I am here sorry okay thank you I noticed
on one of um when counselor beta Stewie
was asking you some questions you I
think you one of your responses
um and correct me if I'm wrong I think
you said something like well if this
isn't going through right we'll we'll
figure it out well something will happen
so what is I mean can you share with us
what you have thought about
the kid doesn't
go through so that yeah there's a few
things here so as mentioned it's an
opportunity Zone and we've we're doing
three different opportunity zones in
different communities uh where we have
Investments and opportunity zones
basically what an opportunity zone is in
2017 or 18 I had games which I used to
purchase the property and invest in the
real estate error what I what with that
you don't get the tax benefit unless you
hold it for at least seven to ten years
typically 10 years to hold it and then
on the other side you have the tit
application which is like the bud4 test
which is would would you do this project
the way you're showing doing it without
the tid being in place and the answer is
no I don't think we can build at the
location the product type that we're
seeing we can build and this goes back
to what Randy and his team has said is
the current market in for apartments and
Senior Living and office rates and those
types of things aren't at a price point
today in Las Cruces where you can build
a Class A office or Class A apartments
for what we've shown in this development
and get the rents that you need
especially with the additional cost of
infrastructure being on top of that so
kind of twofold is if the tit doesn't
get approved we won't move forward with
the project as it's designed today
because it financially is not feasible
and then two would be we're probably not
in a hurry to sell the land anyone
because it's an opportunity Zone and we
have an investment in the land so if we
sell it we lose that tax incentive
two separate things but there's your
answers that's helpful I mean and you'd
still would have a plan it just wouldn't
look like the one you presented to us
today we would have to see what could be
built in that market for the rates
currently being paid in the market and
so I would think you would see more
typical of the apartments that are
currently in the market which we would
call a b or a c product versus an a
product I mean when I say A just nicer
amenities larger Apartments uh things
like that that are currently there's not
a lot of in the market and that just
goes to you can look we have
unlimited amounts of data on on websites
called like co-star and things like that
that basically will show every Apartment
occupancy rate they pay currently in the
Las Cruces Market same thing with office
and all the product types and as of
today with the construction costs in Las
Cruces being very similar to other
markets you just can't get the rate
needed
to
um to justify building those types of
products
yeah and I mean you also mentioned in
your presentation right that you're very
aware about
um the sort of income level that exists
in Las Cruces right and that there it's
very different than other communities
and we very much you know I don't know
if mayor Pro tem mentioned this but we
very much have a huge need a huge need
for affordable housing in our community
um that that's to me that's something
that would be priority for sure so I
think what this does is instead of
creating what would typically be
affordable housing which there's certain
parameters that you have to go to a
certain product type you have to build
to a certain dollar amount of rent what
this does is with this district with
those taxes being able to be reimbursed
back to pay for the infrastructure it
gets us to a market rent on regular
Apartments so we can build market rate
apartments that are that are needed in
the Market at closer to a at closer to a
affordable housing rate
if you see what I'm saying so instead of
creating an affordable housing project
well now we can offer a nice product at
that rate right right
yeah that's helpful thank you and to
answer your question earlier we're not
big box retail Builders I mean I haven't
been since the 90s when I'm used to do
tons of them because it was the popular
thing to do Home Depot and all of them
started we used to do tons of that if
you look at our plan which is the Pud
which we're not really looking at today
there's a strip of retail but it's
mostly like a restaurant with apartments
above it and things like that it's not
big box retail banking
thank you for that clarification I
appreciate it
um I'm gonna go back to the staff now
this is my last question
um Mandy or Dr Martinez I wonder if
given that this is sort of a first of
its kind right like we the city hasn't
done something like this before with the
tid
right so given that it's the sort of
first of it no
this would be the first developer Ted
counselor yeah
yeah can you hear me Martinez yeah
counselor you are correct this would be
the first private hit
um that we would create the tip that we
have downtown is a public tit and so
everything is public funds uh just in a
different pocket okay great
um I believe you're muted
oh no am I muted can you hear me no I
can hear you oh okay
um I think look my own I think the staff
has actually done a lot of work on this
and I've appreciated the due diligence
very very much I think my only critique
is that because it's the first of its
kind that I think really needed a much
broader public input process perhaps
even a survey of business surrounding
businesses to really understand you know
I'm hearing from some people that
absolutely not I would not want to be
part of it I don't want like higher
taxes that's not what I want I'm hearing
Mr Redfern sort of say that there's
folks saying yes I can't wait for that
property to be developed right I think
it'd be important for us to really get a
good understanding of the surrounding
area the immediate surrounding area and
what some of those folks are feeling and
thinking about how this moves forward
um to me I think that's something that
would be really important and critical
um but that's that's my last comment
mayor thank you okay thank you counselor
counselor Vasquez
well thank you mayor um thank you to
staff to my colleagues for uh your great
questions today and for all those who
are joining us today to uh to help us
explore this opportunity this project a
little bit further
um
yeah I think we're gonna We I think
we're in a in a very unique situation
right in that this is the first
developer tid
um or a tid developer project for the
city of Las Cruces so there's no real
precedent for how this could work in Las
Cruces
um I know Albuquerque has had their
experiences with similar projects some
have gone probably not great right from
what I've read I've gotten a lot of
information in the last couple of days
on this in the last week
um and so there's certainly some stories
out there of you know when this goes
wrong what could happen
um but the tit wouldn't exist
um and investors wouldn't be in Las
Cruces if they weren't trying to create
something positive these mechanisms
didn't exist for us to bring something
good to our community
um and so so I just want to I want to
make sure that we don't rely on the
experiences of other cities uh because
this is unique to Las Cruces and is the
first time that we've done this
um since I've been on the council I've
been trying to promote infill
development uh one way or another and
have been so frustrated with oftentimes
the lack of progress when it comes to
implementing plans that we put forth for
that our community participates in
um that we that we all agree are are
beneficial to our community and so the
Apodaca blueprint is one of those plans
um a little tiny piece of it touches my
district the VMware Dam Park
um that I worked really hard to get
Capital outlay funding for and city
funding for uh to develop a nice area
for our residents to walk to trail run
uh to perhaps do some other exercise in
a in an urban setting because a lot of
folks don't have the transportation or
the ability to access some of the more
wild places that this park would emulate
and so I do look forward to at some
point having that Park be a connector to
a larger development that includes
housing that includes
um what the Apodaca blueprint has in it
today which is something that you know
our residents participated in our
Council participated in
um and so I do look forward to this
property being developed at some point I
mean it's it's inevitable and so
um I know some folks sometimes are
resistant to change I know people don't
necessarily want you know new businesses
or traffic or lights or Street going up
in their backyard but we have to think
about the larger Community
um we are in a difficult situation I
think because like probably other
members of the of the council I didn't I
didn't find out until about this project
until just a couple of weeks ago and so
knowing that this was in conversation
with staff and that this was in
development for so long honestly is a
surprise to me that I was not expecting
um in fact I think um you know Miss Gus
man do you mention that we had this
history of talking about kids and
talking about the Apodaca blueprint and
other parts of this project that I'm
surprised that this project didn't come
up even in those conversations right
like oh and by the way we're having we
have a tit application for this massive
project right like that would have been
that would have been great to just have
a heads up on because we would have more
of an opportunity
um in which we weren't under this very
strict deadline right in in
applying and doing this uh doing this
the right way through the state that
we're in today and so I feel like we're
in too much of a shortened time frame to
examine this opportunity given the
deadlines that we're under
um I I to be honest I haven't made up my
mind on this at all I just but I do need
some more time I do need some more
Community input I do want to know
um uh what assurances we have from the
developer that this will include uh that
small business uh element and that
housing element that's right for our
city that includes affordable housing
um I also don't want to be in a
situation where if we don't go through
with this now it's like the city is
being held hostage right I I don't I
don't want a developer not to act in
good faith if the city at this point
says hey we need a little bit more time
or hey like we need some you know rather
than say hey well we're going to do
something else I I would want us to have
a good Cooperative Mutual working
relationship because there's not a whole
lot of investors that I know that are
just clamoring to come and build in Las
Cruces right now and so I also don't
want to throw away opportunities that
might be good for our community
without doing our due diligence to just
make you know the right negotiations to
continue the community process of
figuring out what this development looks
like
um I think that's what a good
partnership looks like I think uh and I
would like us to get to that place if
it's possible
um I don't think having an adversarial
stance to uh you know to to especially
this work session or others is is really
good for anybody right I think
um we just want to do what's best for
our people we want to do what's best for
our constituents uh we want to make sure
we're doing our good by our existing
small businesses
um and so if there's a place where we
can all come together to do that I would
rather us do that than um than
essentially just put everything off the
table
um like I said I know we've received a
lot of input and and a lot of it from
folks that I'm used to hearing on a lot
of different issues all the time and so
um I'm not saying that they're not
representative of a community but I I
haven't heard from a lot of other folks
who who might have different opinions
about this
you know at this point
uh I mean doing the math I guess if
we're looking at 5 000 additional jobs
if that's what the promo the projection
is uh with the 42 million dollar
investment from tax money that currently
doesn't exist that we're not taken from
anywhere you know that's 8 400 a job and
that's something that I look at and I'm
like is that to me that's that's a
pretty worthy investment if we can make
it work right but
um but we have to assure the citizens
and constituents that were used that you
know these funds are being used
listen they're going to want to make a
profit that's also a reality too right
like we can't we can't just expect folks
not you know to do this out of Charity
or the kindness to their heart um folks
they're they're out to make a dollar or
two and so
um where it's right for people where
it's right for neighborhoods where it's
right uh and we have the community input
that's representative of our
discussed at this point I'm not sure
that I'm ready to move forward with this
because like I said there just hasn't
been enough public input there hasn't
been enough
uh process uh a process in place for us
to really discuss what this is going to
look like uh with more time with perhaps
a January application on a tid or
February I forget what it was when that
when the next time period would come up
um I could see us continuing to come up
with a plan that actually implements the
Apodaca blueprint and doesn't leave this
vacant land sitting for I don't know how
many more years
um it creates a situation that you know
that nobody wants and so I guess that's
where I'm at I really don't have any
additional questions
um I uh have have really appreciated
just the the
uh questions from my fellow counselors
uh many of which you asked that I had in
mind as well so that's kind of that's
kind of where I'm at you know I think we
we have to look at that um that at this
opportunity with a A Closer lens and we
have to continue conversations and if it
can work we should make it work and if
it can't work then it can't but I mean I
I would say 80 of the things I saw by
email
folks that were making claims to things
were dispelled by a lot of the the
answers that were given today by staff
and by some different folks and so it's
hard for me to continue the conversation
um in that respect without having
complete and full information on this
project that is accurate so I would like
to just continue to do that
if we can thank you mayor thank you okay
so um
Dr Martinez did you have something that
you wanted to say
thank you mayor
um I I want to address a question that
both counselor Ben KOMO and counselor
Vasquez have brought up which is public
input
um just to remind us all about the
process uh the in the item that we
brought to you two weeks ago that was
stable that will be back
um on the agenda for the six that is the
intent to create and that's not enough
that's a non-binding process
um once that intent to create resolution
is adopted by city council a 30-day
public input process starts and that is
where we could continue to gather public
input
um and and concerns and address those I
believe we have received a lot in
Council of us as you mentioned
um that most of those have been
addressed already but those 30 days will
be specifically to gather more public
input also the process includes a public
hearing and that would be before
adoption and so those are the mechanisms
that we have in place or that that are
in place related to the creation of any
tid that we would still follow and so
um that's that's uh that's the next step
and so that would give city council
members and the community an opportunity
for more feedback on this project
thank you Dr Martinez I appreciate that
follow-up um you know we're we're in a
in a
a difficult time uh when it comes to
engaging the public
um I think we can find some Creative
Solutions to be honest of like really
encompassing uh a way to to gather and
and
um uh make sure we we're including
public input in our regular Council
meetings and at work sessions uh but I
do worry that you know that process is
not the same under covid as it would be
um under you know non-covet times in
terms of the public engagement I would
want to hear from people in person maybe
you know we probably can't do that at
this point and so
um without knowing what that public
input process might look like
that 30-day process considering that I
don't think our we have sufficient
public input
um uh
that I think does Justice to the
comments in the public comments that we
received today so
um I don't know if that's something that
maybe you can present at the Monday
meeting in terms of how that entire
process would roll out and What
mechanisms would be in place to make
sure that folks voices were were heard
and accounted for
um but that's something I would I would
like to hear more about Dr Martinez and
and how that works
I think councilor Vasquez will address
that thank you Dr Martinez thank you
ma'am okay well thank you so um
uh Zach did you have another comment
yeah just real quick mayor I actually
just figured out how to raise my hand
that was a new one for me so I've only
been on about 100 of these uh I
counselor guys I just want to say I have
all your comments were very good
comments
um and I guess when I say that uh you
know we're now on the property I would
just say that uh you know we're not
leaving town or not going to do the
project it's just we've been working on
it for a long period of time and it's
been a lot of money putting all this
together as far as legal and design and
all that I think a lot of this too is at
the Pud which we'll have to follow this
is where we really get into all the
approvals as far as what the project
looks and feels like I mean that all has
to approve all the the design elements
of it if it's you know most of our
retail is retail with apartments above
it there's really no big box retail
that's all spoke to in great detail in
the Pud which
um it and this is a lot with me is with
the with the city was well we need to
get the Ted approved before we worry
about a PUD because that design will
look very different of what that PUD
would look like would look very
different without a tip
and so
um I I that's you know partially as I
think we need to say okay well with this
financial mechanism in place here's what
we could build and design and build on
this property that would that would
change without the tip being placed but
we're not we're not going anywhere we're
not seeing we won't do the project in
the future
um and I understand that there's a lot
of information I just but there is
there's still this whole PUD process
we're all the weighing in on what would
be built on this site it still all has
to be approved
so
and I just think
um you know this is the first step in a
long process that's a little bit hidden
I think for our community to represents
kind of that handshake uh requires trust
right say okay we will move forward uh
we will invest City resources including
staff to continue this process the same
same way that you're investing your
private assets right we're investing
City resources which is taxpayer money
to to essentially continue this and so
um I feel where you're at I think we're
in the same place right
um and so uh it's just it's it's that
that part of trust of building trust and
extending the hand and saying we will
move forward I think requires more time
more open communication uh more
preliminary
um engagement with with our citizenry
um which which I think is part of the
outcry that we're getting now from folks
who are saying yeah this benefits the
developer or hey this is being done
under you know behind closed doors
um I don't think that was the intent
kind of a faulty process in the way that
our community uh and and ourselves to be
honest I mean like I said I haven't
heard this project
um I spend you know a lot of time
planning these things you spend a lot of
time talking to our constituents about
the changes we want to make in our
district and so to to have that
opportunity to communicate this and to
have input
um for a longer period of Time Project
like this helps build that trust in the
city developer that I think we need if
we if we want to move forward so
um I you know I appreciate appreciate
your comments and um thinking there okay
all right so I know there's other
council members that want to speak but
you know what I'm going to limit it to
just one time each round I'm going to
review with you uh now we're going to be
listening to Connie Potter and then Eva
Nevada St John each has 15 minutes after
that then I'll turn that back to council
and they can either ask questions of
Connie or Eva or any other questions
that they may have had in the past I'm
sorry but we're gonna have to just keep
it moving along if not uh we'll be here
until nine o'clock
so Ken can you hear me yes I can hear
you Connie even supposed to go first Eva
okay that's fine so
um Eva
you've got 15 minutes and just need you
to state your name and uh if you have a
presentation to make or any type of
um
um documents to share with us just let
us know
thank you mayor and uh City councilor my
name is Eva Navara St John I'm the
president
Association and I just wanted to warn
you that while I could say a lot about
the things the different bullet points
in my PowerPoint presentation due to the
time limit
um probably just going to be able to
read through them rather quickly so I'll
try to make possibly some comments that
might clarify them in in the context of
the things that have been said so far
uh so let me find my presentation there
Okay so we've already seen the um
okay we've already seen the boundaries
the boundaries cover 91 Acres of the
original Las Cruces Country Club site
and um the main criteria that we're
looking at of course is the butt for
test
um which the city staff and and the
developer continually say that this
could not be developed as proposed but
for this kid so the primary purpose of
tax increment financing is to promote
economic development that would not
happen but for the establishment of a
tip for a kid this prevents the use of
taxpayer funds for development that
would have occurred in an area without
government subsidies
the bud4 requirement applies to the
prospect for development within the
proposed District it does not apply to
the fact that a specific developer does
not have the financial capacity to
develop the property as proposed but for
the trip Fortune subsidy
um or it could be the financial capacity
or it could just be the desire to um
to do the development in the way that
it's proposed not at either or
um the country club property does not
meet the four tests it is in a highly
desirable location not the Main Street
and near an interchange I-25 interchange
abadaka Park one of the Las Cruces most
popular parks borders the property on
the South Side the well-established
Country Club neighborhood borders the
property on the east side and the
well-established Elks neighborhood is
just North of the property
developers have been trying to buy this
property since long before the country
club sold it
it's in an infill overlay district and
opportunity Zone as previously been
discussed which has a lot of incentives
built into both
one-third of the property has been
rezoned and the entire property has been
subdivided which also adds value to the
property
after the owner of the 76 Acres of the
property bankrupted the Las Cruces
Country Club in 2018 by not paying for
it there were several bidders seeking to
purchase it and the mayor mentioned the
city was one of the bidders there was
another private developer that was the
bidder as well
the winner of the bankruptcy bid
immediately flipped the 76 acres to one
of the current owners in November 2018
so this was written before we knew that
Randy still had a stake in it because
again with all the LLCs and uh knowing
who's who and whose actual owner was not
something we knew before today
most of the rezone portion of the
property was sold to the current owners
in December 2018.
uh the proper the parties applying for
the Ted already own the property so a
kid is not needed to attract a buyer or
developer
proposed to it includes the hospital
parcel which is already being developed
diverting gross receipts taxes and
property taxes from this parcel for up
to 25 years it's inappropriate so
basically what I'm trying to say with
that is
um if there was no tid put into place
the hospital that's currently being
constructed all the gross receipt taxes
and property taxes from that hospital
would be going to the general funds and
other taxing bodies in the city and the
county
levels so I really at a loss to
understand why that should be included
in the 10 and why those taxes should be
diverted to this development I can
understand why from the developer's
point of view but not from the point of
view of the taxpayers
the hospital itself will attract
additional development to the property
without the tin and what form that takes
with the control of the current owners
but I'm sure there are other
businesses uh that I would be interested
in locating the hospital itself will
attract additional development
uh which brings us to the 72 million
dollar question the proposed kid is
estimated to cost taxpayer the
approximately 42 million with an
additional 1.2 million in annual
operating costs for a total of over 72
million the taxes devoted to the tid
would otherwise be available to serve
residents of Las Cruces donana County in
New Mexico
in these uncertain Economic Times with
tax revenues down 25 or more due to the
covid-19 pandemic will the proposed tin
provide sufficient benefits to justify
this loss of tax revenues for up to 25
years
so again we're constantly being told
these are revenues that we would not be
receiving without this development
without this tid and that's um
an assumption that I can't really uh
say has been proven
uh there are Pros for uh approving a tid
here one is the potential for job growth
and tax revenues that would not have
occurred but for the Ted and again that
case still needs to be made that this
will actually occur
the tid does not require a direct
increase in taxes another argument if
it's just free money we wouldn't get
otherwise however an indirect increase
in the tax rate may be required at a
later time to make up for the Lost
revenues that are dedicated to the ten
and finally a capital infusion for the
developer that reduces the amount of
equity they need for the project this is
an advantage that no other developer or
business in Las Cruces has ever been
given as what's previously stated this
is the first time for us as far as a
private developer did
and most of this Capital will end up in
Nebraska the home of the owners and
developers again that was written before
we knew there was any local interest in
these entities so again by keeping
everybody in the dark it doesn't help uh
sell the project
so now we move on to the cons
Studies have found that most development
attributable to tests and kids would
have occurred anyway at that location or
in another part of the city
businesses may move forward may move
from another part of the city to or
County because the Jed provides a
competitive advantage to the developers
and businesses over those that are not
in a kid
and taxing entities City County Schools
state
we'll see tax revenues diverted to the
tid including increases due to property
appreciation and development that would
have occurred without the tune so again
this is not free money this is taxes
that over 25 years we're talking about
over 25 years can't tell me over 25
years that property would not generate
tax revenues that could go to the taxing
entities
uh kids that include new housing
increase demand for schools while at the
same time reducing tax revenues
available to the school district for the
life of the 10. this could require
increases in the tax rate to make up for
the loss this project specifically
proposes over 485 units of housing this
is going to impact our four little
schools here I got up here in Loma
Heights Elementary and Sierra middle
school which are the schools in the
direct neighborhood here the high school
Mayfield but it will probably impact
other schools too I don't think they can
absorb all the students at those schools
from 485 units of housing
uh added costs for schools and other
services that only benefit the tid are
paid for by property owners and
taxpayers outside of the tin in other
words all taxpayers from the city and
county will be paying those bills
the proposed kid gives the developer
representation on the initial tip board
at the end of the initial term 10 board
members will be elected by the owners of
the development giving them control of
the board this will give them a blank
check for expenses and procurement
outside of normal procurement guidelines
creating many conflicts of interest
now I do understand that they're limited
by the agreements
and operating and maintenance and all
that kind of stuff but when you read the
agreements uh basically
the 10 expense the tid eligible expenses
are practically unlimited related to and
there's a very broad definition of
public infrastructure as I've been
mentioned before some of these things
are typically worn by the developer and
not necessarily to the public benefit
even when you look at the parks and
they're one of the parks is actually the
flood retention Pond I'm not sure what
benefit that is to the public lifetime
or parking lots that benefit the private
businesses there
are not necessarily benefiting the
public at large like they do downtown
uh financial decisions by a tid board
are separate from the normal budget
process making public scrutiny more
difficult and preventing elected
officials from reprioritizing the
spending dedicated to kids if needed for
other purposes
the tit account will not be reflected in
the city and counties
annual Financial reports
bonds issued for a tid may result in
Long long-term obligations that limit
the city's ability to issue debt for
other non-tit projects again I
understand the bonds aren't issued by
the city they're issued by the district
but again looking at experience in other
places and had kids when the bond when
there's defaults or the revenues come in
slower than anticipated sometimes these
other entities have to
um kind of bail them out you know
because it can have a negative impact to
to allow those defaults to occur so if
the developer fails to make the promised
private Investments or they occur slower
than projected property values and sales
tax revenues will not increase enough to
service the bonds resulting in default
or diverting other resources to service
the bonds
uh other costs of attend and this ties
in with the putt also and the
um the scope of the proposed development
to the community may include increased
traffic crime noise light heat and
pollution that lowers the values of
nearby homes and businesses so I just
want to mention that is the cost to the
community not a financial cost well it
is financial to the homeowner it's in
the business
um which now brings us to the uh for
example the Pud there are significant
discrepancies between the world Crossing
plan unit development concept plan and
the development plan these discrepancies
must be resolved before any action is
taken to commit to the formation of the
proposed kid we're kind of looking at um
you have one thing represented in in the
development plan about how things are
going to go and you have some things
that are different in the Pud and that
definitely has to be reconciled
the tid development schedule the
proposed public and private improvements
aren't accurate because they don't
consider the time needed for approval of
traffic impact analysis and rezoning
that would be required requesting the
formation of the proposed kid before
approval of tias and rezoning is putting
the card before the horse
tid guidelines require a certificate
that the tid will comply with the city's
current zoning requirements emphasis on
current it seems to require the
appropriate Zoning for the proposed
development be in place at the time of
application
so again the city staff has responded to
all questions about the world Crossing
pod tias and the need for rezoning of
the 76 acres by saying these are
separate processes that should be kept
separate
the development plans projections
related to the scope cost timing and
financing and public improvements and
ongoing operations and maintenance are
based on the assumptions in the put
which are dependent on Tia's and
rezoning so they're they're definitely
interrelated and trying to pretend
they're not this isn't going to work
we're not buying that one
the tid development plans estimate an
annual GRT and property tax equipment
revenues are based on the assumptions in
the fund which are dependent on tias and
rezoning but yet they're interrelated
the two development plans estimates of
the number and type of jobs are based on
the assumptions in the put which are
dependent on Tia's and rezoning so we
need to look at the whole picture
uh some other specific concerns about
the Ted the tid development plan states
that Sid will be financed with up to 75
of GRT and property tax increments from
the city and county this is what's in
the development plan not what has been
represented as far as
um negotiating for 70 percent of the GRT
so again it's our discrepancies in the
plan that aren't
that need to be revised before there's a
vote
uh and may seek to and they've also said
they may see GRT increments from the
state this is why I keep bringing up the
state because it's an option they say
they're not planning to do it right now
but they may at some point do that
County Commissioners have not agreed to
the dedication of grd or property tax
increments to the proposed kid and are
not represented on the proposed to the
board
the applicant is proposing that the cost
of law parking area is be covered by the
chin including parking structures with
approximately one thousand parking
stalls and approximately 2 220 surface
parking stalls ownership excuse me about
your 15 minutes are up so if you can
wrap it up real quick please
okay let me try to get to a couple other
quick main points
um the existing public improvements
related to the streets and and
everything that have been built around
the hospital
um again these were built
under
um the CIA approved for the development
of the 30.75 Acres including the
hospital and those were supposed to be
the developers responsibility and now to
um say they they can be reimbursed I
don't quite think that's fair
uh we talked about it excuse me if any
of the four remaining speakers other
than Connie wish to give up their seven
and a half minutes I can I can take it
from them
if you'd like but I'm gonna have to I'm
gonna have to tell you that Greg wrote
and in and said that he was uh willing
to give me give us his time who's Greg
Greg I can't say his last name oh I
don't I don't have him as a speaker I
just have sherry Steve Jeff steinborn
and commissioner Reynolds so if any of
those four want to give up some of their
minutes for you to finish your your
presentation your discussion that's fine
okay well I have provided the city
council with a hard copy of this
presentation so
um well I guess I'll just let them read
the rest yeah if Connie finishes early
then uh you know you can take her last
minute or two
all right okay thank you okay thank you
Connie you there
Connie Potter
hang on I'm mute I'm muted okay I'm
muted I'm trying to share my screen here
okay Jeff's uh Senator Jeff steinborn
said he'd give his two minutes so if you
want to work on your thing uh Connie and
and I can let him talk I'm right here oh
you ready okay we'll go back we'll go
back to okay can you see my slides
yes okay
my talk is really
um more hopefully economic and a little
more uh kind of looking forward here so
I want to ask is this the right time is
this the right place and my name is
Connie Potter
um my education background is is MBA
healthcare administration so I have some
things just a little thing to say about
the hospital hospital
the tid the tidd for Greenfield land is
is newer than what it was originally
intended for which was Brownfield which
is decayed polluted had a bunch of empty
buildings on it Etc it is basically
clear land ready to be developed
um you know they've killed all the trees
so you don't have to remove them
the country club was forced into
bankruptcy by the buyers it is not
blighted if everybody talks about how
long this has been that thing's been
tied up in court for years even I sat on
every bankruptcy call every single one
and this last flip from Chris's Equity
Partners when they refused the city's uh
more generous offer for this land flip
to a new developer we never knew about
no amounts are out there we don't know
how much was paid but there's multiple
bidders at the bankruptcy sales so
saying that this land is like nobody's
gonna touch it just doesn't
um doesn't really uh cut it now there's
four owners we know all out of state in
murky they flipped it as soon as it was
bought in bankruptcy and we did not know
until today that Randy McMillan now of
century or excuse me of equity Partners
cruises Equity Partners has a stake in
this where he was with Nai first Valley
which is involved in the bankruptcy
if you add up all the sales transactions
since 2014 actually there's 24. nine in
the last four years
the private development developer tin
shifts public money into private now out
of state hands there's little or no
accountability much as you say there is
because it's a contract
you know basically nobody's going to be
overseeing every transaction or every
bid there's no bids there's no
transparency and the public input has
been minimal
the high-rise and high density that's
being put forth in the Pod is not wanted
or appropriate and I'm going to go
through that when we get to the stuff
about the Apodaca blueprint projects
which keeps coming up and coming up
the historic trust building is
apparently going to be destroyed there's
no attempt at preservation it was we
were told it was going to be preserved
it's not identified as historic
it caught fire twice in one day from two
different directions it's all been to
vandals and destruction and I'll skip
the arrowhead Film Studio I was asked to
put that in but um you've already
explained it so I appreciate that but
this is a real broken promise and a
piece of uh our history
now
I couldn't cross over the Golden tablets
that we call the Apodaca blueprint
project a blueprint is a policy guide
it's not come down the hill with Moses
okay it has no legal standing there are
not development regulations or laws it
requires Outreach and involvement of
critical stakeholders there were a total
of about 120 people and many of them
were repeaters that went to those
meetings so the amount of public inputs
miniscule it requires Outreach and
involvement didn't boundary areas
clearly defined well they were
not anymore
it doesn't replace pnz
the Apodaca blueprint input was never
honored or incorporated into the Pod and
we're going to look at that
okay here's the yes answers down the
left side follow that and what royal
Crossing is proposing
a multi-family dwellings four stories
Town Homes two stories hotel five
stories offices two and four stories
retail we just heard their two stories
it says n a
now how many people wanted one story if
you look vertically
20 percent
said one story for multi-family 75 said
one story for Town Homes offices one
story 85 percent you follow me here
two-story was eight percent eight
percent offices 25 percent
and eight percent retails two-story how
many wanted three story four-story
five-story nobody
how many one and this was your
representative population how many
wanted high density nobody who wanted
big box stores and by the way whether
you say there's big box stores or not
they're in the plan
and Community Development has said
something to the effect of big box
stores plural
okay let's look at the ABB summary uh
consensus summary about other impacts
traffic impact significant negative
impact 77 percent
right there negative impact on man
Solana Madrid and adjacent neighborhoods
the blueprint impact on Apodaca Park
negative
well you can just subtract positive was
15 the rest negative and there's
opposition to the use by the development
of Apodaca park because there's hardly
any green space park in that huge infill
over traditional users at that Park
overall satisfaction with proposed
blueprint
just overall for other Apodaca piece of
it not at all satisfied 66 percent
satisfied with only some eight percent
satisfied 23 so if this was an
overwhelming consensus that Apodaca
blueprint project was a way to go and
how it should look and then we took it
to another degree
you know uh beyond that
we we are not necessarily being honest
here now as far as the summary consensus
there's one thing that's in bold here
that was really put out on a single
sheet determining the maximum traffic
that can be generated in Focus area a
which is Abu Dhaka Royal Crossing before
developers spend money on plans and tias
isn't everyone's best interest
never done
now I'm going to go to the proposal
itself enough about the offenaka
blueprint project what you know is that
nobody wanted it nobody wants what we're
seeing here
the town homes here's the square footage
we're talking about pretty pretty big
but that doesn't even include the
parking lots and the the Thousand uh
square foot or a thousand parking space
uh parking structure
residential units including some 66 in
the hotel
eight retail stores
and the total of them is 6.7 million uh
square feet that's pretty big 4 700
parking spaces that's a lot of cars
residents
2334 residents with unknown number of
patients go into the medical office
buildings
an unknown number of staff and customers
are going in and out of the retail
floors two through five you can see
there now we can say retail according to
Zach is going to be two-story or more
the cars if you count at the parking
spaces and the number of cars that
they're allocating per household unit
you get 2907 cars
okay then you know that doesn't include
the hospital
that doesn't include the employees uh in
the um uh
senior housing
so what what you get is 2907 cars 2810
employees making two trips a day then
you add patients visitors or sniff
Hospital staff that's 3200 additional
stalls
if you add those all up and that just is
with people making two trips a day going
to coming from
how many of you get home and decide you
got to go one more trip to Albertsons
that right there is 17 834 car trips a
day
jobs jobs jobs okay I want to look at
the ftes full time equivalence if you
look at multi-family town home we don't
know who owns them don't know if they're
going to be rentals retail big boxes
groceries medical office Hospital Senior
Living
I have two questions here
I'm a healthcare Economist I have never
ever seen ftes in a medical office
building
for 900 full-time equivalents
and I also really questioned 834 in
Senior Living that's a you know one
FTE per patient and you'd have twice or
three times the patience of anybody else
in town
I want to draw your attention to these
salaries
and this is
trying to wrap my head around who is
going to move here to Las Cruces who is
going to come and take new jobs that
aren't going to be just shifted from
another employer already here so it's a
zero seven game for these kinds of
salaries
when I move my when I move my non-profit
here
and brought in staff my staff made
ninety thousand dollars a year they were
willing to move here I made more than
that we moved five ftes here in a
million and a half dollar a year
business
now
these salaries don't even come close I
mean this this one here for multi-family
that's like groundskeeper
um you know look at look at the under
the salaries local mostly
local mostly mostly maybe the medical
office is going to be mixed hospital
when we did the Zoning for the hospital
and did the financial analysis for the
hospital
we got in in Ingress and egress data
real data and we found that only five
percent of the patients uh in this area
went out for care
but we had virtually nobody coming in
for care
it was all good all this was going to be
patience and everything taken from
whoever uh happens to be already in
business
so Medical Office Buildings Maybe
jobs are they all new well
Crossing estimates are all new jobs uh
but the fact is that those salaries and
you know their their marginal jobs
they're not founded not enough to
support a family and
unless it's proven otherwise this
cannibalizes existing businesses and
local merchants of both their employees
and their customers there's a reasonable
argument that new jobs are already local
there's a reasonable argument that new
customers and patients are already local
and there's no real needs assessment or
Market study to show us wrong
construction jobs if you look in the
parking lot over there nearly all are
out of state Texas Nebraska they're
three months the impact on the local
economy is Motel Foods gas Etc
they leave on weekends and spend their
money on permanent housing in the home
state the positive is they don't use a
lot of government services
The Proposal problem thousand pages of
questionable
economic and employment predictions
you know basically from the developer
unless proven otherwise this stuff is a
zero sum the fda's appear inflated for
retail medical offices and construction
and most wages are working for a
marginal there's no impact assessment on
social education law enforcement
Transportation Etc there's no
environmental assessment on huge runoffs
if you look at the millions of square
feet
of solid stuff that's going to just pour
water uh in dirt and debris and
everything
parking lots roofs there's lighting we
have laws about lighting here
um heat sink from parking and roofs
there's tiny green space with Apodaca
Park basically being the buffer in the
flood ponds
the critical issues here is the upper
deck of blueprint feedback and
recommendations have not been respected
or Incorporated
referring to the blueprint and it's not
a plan it's not
it's as approved and adopted as
misleading does that mean that you
adopted all the negative comments and
everybody knows about them that nobody
wanted this 100 of the participants did
not want this type of development
and it definitely puts abadaka park at
risk because the multiple five-story
four and five story
high-rise apartment buildings are
clustered right around the north side of
Abu Dhaka Park traffic issues cannot be
overcome the Tia cannot pass
pnz U.S Senate 70 is already at carrying
capacity with the hospital traffic
that's the reason that only that 34
Acres passed and was carved out from the
rest of it only the hospital Tia was
adopted not the rest
North Main has four failed intersections
as of 2019. and that's because the the
new changes that they did
the changes that they did were planned
years before
um
they were planned years before uh Park
Ridge was even even a thought North
Maine can't carry 18
000 more car trips a day excuse me
Connie you're 15 minutes are up
um one more slide I think
that uh I've got Steve Fishman who said
he donate two minutes and Jeff Stein
born two minutes but maybe you can take
two and Eva can take two if you'd like I
think I can do it economic and improve
employment benefits are Improvement
there's no undependent verification of
their data the mitigating factors here
is the public needs prudence and
adherence to your fiduciary duty there's
a pandemic with no end in sight it's
impossible to get real public input you
know our elderlies here don't even get
email
there's social unrest here the police
issues have unbudgeted costs for the
foreseeable future and I think you know
why
there's a recession we already are the
poorest state we're the second poorest
city we expect a 25 or Worse downfall
the players we we just can't get our
hands we can't wrap our hands around who
all these people are and there's General
uncertainty about tax shortfalls
in summary there's two videos
projections with no independent needs
assessment there's likely little benefit
to the local area and less proven
otherwise most employees and jobs are
low pay marginal and local most
customers are scavenged from area
businesses
it was impossible simply impossible for
the city and public to thoroughly review
what I call a data Dome
uh there's that we didn't even have a
required City tidd staff report until
yesterday
it lacks the protection for City and the
public if the development fails such as
the five previously failed and bankrupt
projects four current owners nine in the
past
four years and years of expensive
litigation so far
the end
okay thank you Connie
um
so
what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask
if council members have any
uh questions of either Connie Eva or
Zach and so I'm gonna go to
look like counselor Flores
as a question
so any of the three counselors that you
can ask questions
thank you Mr Mayor but no I I don't have
any questions no you don't have a
question okay no just thank you Connie
thank you Eva
you're welcome
um Zach did you you have your hand up or
did you not know how to put your hand
down
I'm assuming my hand was still up from
earlier okay okay no no problem sorry
okay well if you'd like uh Council we
can go ahead and listen to Sherry Steve
Fishman Jeff steinborn commissioner
Reynolds and and um
let me read some public comments real
quick I got three members of uh public
comment and then I'll go to Sherry
Thomas and then Steve Fishman down the
road so this one here is from Peter
Goodman it says uh while I'm glad you
folks are having a work session to
discuss this Ted please count me as one
who hopes you will not take more action
until the city government has found a
matter and back then this meetings that
facilitates full and fair public input I
think this tid will have difficulty
showing that the quote but for a Ted
he did this attractive area would not be
developed
particularly since the same folks though
mostly from
far beyond the city's borders the best
and substantial amounts in land here I
doubt they did So based on speculation
that they could talk to talk the city
into a tit and if that land investment
was unwise without a tid that tends to
undermine faith in their business
judgment
further the recent construction of a
hospital undermines their case
further as I understand the tid it must
generate
substantial economic activity
job production that is new to the Las
Cruces area not draw a restaurant or
shop trade that would otherwise find
downtown or the mall
I would be quite interested to see how
they demonstrate that this would occur
first this would not be the first this
kind of Novel attraction that is going
to draw folks to Las Cruces quite more
likely it will simply shift some of the
economic activity to the tid area
further if anything is going to draw
more people to the area it might be the
hospital which seems more likely to
siphon off well-heeled patients from the
other two hospitals here that already
exists Sans tid
finally I urge the city to do its best
to significantly enhance its receptivity
to public input during meetings at this
time of Cholera failure to do so will
cause extensive strife and undermine The
credibility of the many good things you
folks are doing thank you Peter Goodman
I've got another one
from
Chris wydra
says please delay any action on post hit
today
which we're not voting don't allow them
to push the city for their agenda no
need to support
public private with taxpayer funds the
developer has negative record of past fa
all throughs we have no City guidelines
for this request a new city manager
should be in place before this is
reviewed and public input is needed
thanks Chris wydra
and I have I have another one here that
I need to read that I couldn't print
um it's an email
from Carrie Hamblin
and let me read this
says uh
honorable mayor and Council thank you
for taking the time to have a work
session about the tid for the Royal
Crossings property on North Main many of
us who have lived here for decades
watching that property go from an active
golf course to Wasteland to noun area
with a rehabilitation hospital with
potential to serve our community is
refreshing however the current
discussion to create a tid for the area
raises several concerns the green
Chamber of Commerce understands the need
needs to have a balance of commercial
slash chain stores in our community as
it can sometimes make our city more
appealing to people interested in moving
here having familiar places to purchase
goods and services and provide a known
product however because of covid-19 we
are seeing the true impact of our local
businesses and our community and our
economy the struggles they face on a
daily basis are real as we are seeing
thousands of employees being laid off
revenues dropped and businesses closing
even with the pandemic restrictions
being modified our local businesses will
be struggling for the unforeseeable
future the city of Las Cruces is not
known for being business friendly
although I applaud the efforts to change
that by the staff at the economic
development department there are Decades
of systematic procedures that are in the
process of being modified to be more
business friendly and we are starting to
see the success of these of those
changes but more needs to be done to
support our local businesses local
businesses keep tax dollars in our
community give back to local profits 350
more than do National change put less
stress on the infrastructure and help us
identify keep the identity of Las Cruces
so unique for more explanation of the
importance of supporting the local
business click here by creating a tid
for the Royal Crossings property she has
some bullet points one this gives unfair
advantage to an out-of-state business
entity rather than directing such relief
and support for local businesses that
need all the help they can get right now
two this provides opportunities for an
out-of-state entity to select or allow
what businesses to go on the property
this opens up the site for big chains
and out-of-state businesses to come in
this would this could put some of our
local businesses out of business Las
Cruces faced this threat when a
neighborhood Walmart
wanted to develop the land at the corner
of teshiro and Valley dozens of small
businesses would have been forced to
close as is the common outcome when a
wnm which is a Walmart Neighborhood
Market moves into an area of
predominantly local businesses the wnm
at Roadrunner is not in the heart of
local business and therefore it did not
have a direct impact on local businesses
in the area note the city of council
voted 7-0 against the rezoning of that
property and therefore save dozens of
small businesses that would have been
negatively impacted and forced to close
the effort by the wnm was spearheaded by
an outside entity with no disclosure of
the business and therefore no loyalty to
the local community
and another bullet point says a bad
precedent for out-of-state developers in
the future to request hits and not set
local businesses as the priority
I am automatically concerned when there
is a short turnaround time for proposals
that will impact our city our local
businesses and the residents the green
Chamber of Commerce also feels there
needs to be more of a concerted effort
to support local businesses with the
resources and tax breaks they need to
survive prioritizing an out-of-state
entity with no connections to our
community and giving them tax breaks
with no clear indication of the
long-term effects is that the service to
the local businesses that have invested
here for decades if not Generations
thank you for your consideration Harry
Hamlin CEO president Las Cruces Chamber
of Commerce
Mr Mayor could you ask Miss Connor
Potter to uh unshare her uh
unshare her screen screen yes
Connie did you get that
there thank you
okay so with that I'm gonna go to let's
start with Sherry Thomas she has seven
and a half minutes
Sherry are you there yep just have to
unmute can you hear me yes
okay so most of what I have to say has
already been said so I'll just
um touch on them briefly if I have
something different to add so so
um I'm Sharon Thomas I'm a former city
council member and mayor Pro tem and I'm
currently the chair of the Planning and
Zoning Commission
so this area was in my district when I
was a city councilor so I'm very
familiar with the issues and um in all
the in the history of what's gone on
with the old country club site
um I want to say at the outset I
generally support kids however they're
very complicated and in this case I
think we're just at the beginning of
studying this one
um I think what's been most Troublesome
to me is that at the discussions with
the developer have been going on since
October
um 2018 but it seems little was known
about this tit by most of the council or
anyone in the public until it appeared
on June 15th so I think like uh
councilor Vasquez was saying everybody
needs more information more time to
process the information getting all that
information on a Thursday and then
having to meet and talk about it on
Monday was way too fast and it just
feels to me like the mayor in the city
council are being treated like they're
just a rubber stamp it's like that's my
biggest complaint
um we all know something about tiffs
well that's been pointed out tiffs and
tids are the same thing
um
and the history of those has been mostly
for our for uh lighted areas or you know
failing areas of a city uh and sometimes
they work there
um but in the last couple decades in
this state and many other states
how Ted's work has been dramatically
changed and so now it's possible to do a
tid almost anywhere in New Mexico like
18 other states that in the area for a
Ted no longer has to be blighted so this
is a big national issue that's being
discussed all over the country
um so the pitch is always a New Economic
Development so we've talked about that
um
there's this whole idea that um Connie
and Eva talked touched on that you know
you use the if the development occurs
then the population increases then the
demand for schools and Roads and Public
Safety goes up and sometimes the general
funds can't keep up with that so you
really are diverting money that might be
needed for that those kinds of services
um I was a little concerned about this
part that I've heard a couple times I
think from Mandy the worst case scenario
if we had widespread economic turn down
the tid is subordinate to the city's
debt the city would first cover their
debt obligations before the tid
I didn't think that was even a
possibility according to the legislation
I've read it says that the tid quote
shall not be a general obligation of
state county or municipality so it's my
understanding that the state legislation
says that that obligation cannot come to
the city so I I don't understand this
part about oh well it's subordinate
um I think uh again like counselor
Vasquez said the deadline seems
artificial we need more time
um there's much about the boundaries
um again if you look at the Apodaca
blueprint Plan Focus area a it's all of
the Old Country Club and Apodaca Park
and it is bounded by Salon Solano in
Madrid so at the very least I think the
tits should come uh should include all
of the focus area that is what's that
area is about
um I know plan unit
development and kids are different but
um I should I think I keep hearing about
Apodaca blueprint and all how great it
is and these things that are going to
happen but we just haven't had enough
discussion on how this tid relates to
the Apodaca blueprint I mean what are
the connections in in is there some way
that this tid is actually going to move
forward the apotaka blueprint we need to
know more about the connection
um at least that much of a description
and then there's the governing body
um the legislation says this District
shall be governed by the governing body
that's the city that adopted a
resolution to form the district
or by a five-member board and we've
heard that however the state legislation
also says that the board if you choose
to do the five-member board it should be
composed of four members appointed by
the governing body provided that the
fifth member is the Secretary of finance
and administration I I maybe I'm just
not finding it but I can't find any
legislation that says there will be
representatives from the development on
the governing board
so how are we going to move forward I
think we it's been clear there are still
many many questions that um
that we need more time for public input
maybe we need to go back to negotiating
today we'll certainly need greater
inclusion in the planning process by the
mayor and the council and the
neighborhood and the public in general
um and another thing that concerns me is
I keep hearing that the date set for the
vote is the same date as the public
meeting and that there's just going to
be the public meeting and then the vote
right after it
now I've heard that well we're going to
have 30 days to collect public input but
I haven't heard anything about how
that's going to be done and what's this
meeting this from public input that's
right before the vote what's that
meeting for
is that going to be a collection of
everything we've heard so
so the decisions up to the mayor and the
council I don't think you've had enough
time or enough information to make an
informed decision at this point
so maybe you think it's acceptable maybe
you think it's just not meeting the
threshold of the neighborhood's vision
and you want to deny it but
um my response is that this kid needs a
lot more study the deadlines too
artificial an additional six months or
more of collaboration coordination with
officials and the Greater Community
would what would not only result in a
much better tid but also we might
actually be able to develop a process
for future kids so I hope you'll
consider that option
okay thank you Sherry
um now we're going to go to the
counselor did you have a question asked
Sherry
uh no I just had a final comment after
uh these two just to show you okay
all right now we're gonna go to Steve
Fishman who
donated a minute of his time so six and
a half minutes there Steve
thank you mayor uh I'm Steve Fishman uh
former state senator and now public
regulation commissioner
and uh I do have a finance background
that I have to admit up front uh that my
prejudice is that kids are frankly
voodoo economics
um I've never understood the logic
behind them it just seemed like
this idea that somehow we're getting
free money
um
that makes no sense to me
that as a city grows we have more need
for funds for regular city services
um
and I would urge everyone to I think
even did a terrific presentation there I
would urge everybody to go through her
deck because I'm not going to repeat all
the the reasons that I believe what I
believe but I think Eva did a very good
job of pointing out the issues
but
um as regards
this particular development Royal
Crossing
um
I do believe that there's strong impetus
from everybody to do something positive
with that area
and um I have to say that uh
Zach I've been impressed with your
openness
in my current job I I hear stuff from
lots of companies and lots of
Corporations and uh I get a lot of
double talk
and uh I feel very comfortable with your
direct answers Zach so I really
appreciate that
and I'm at Echo Gabe again uh
there's no need to be enemies in this
Zach you've you've said you're going to
be around a while you've been answering
honestly
um I feel like
um
from what I see today there's a good
chance of having a good dialogue with
you going forward and your companies
um and that we should pursue that
and we shouldn't be closing any Avenues
but I will Echo the prior comments I've
heard is that we've only seen one Avenue
here
and I think there are lots more that can
be developed
that would work for everybody yeah and
so I I think we should work in a spirit
of partnership and certainly your
company brings terrific resources to
that challenge
um
I think everybody I've been hearing a
lot that folks think that we need a lot
more information I totally agree
I would also comment that I think we got
the process backwards in regards to PUD
versus uh doing a tip
it seems to me that if we do a PUD with
lots of public input that should inform
the way we structure a Ted
or a sad or a vad or whatever vehicle we
choose to help get development underway
I'm at Royal Crossing
um so uh
basically I would ask the council and um
uh the city staff to consider that
carefully because that might be the
vehicle
that we can get all the public input to
put that we need at the right level
and then from there we can decide how to
financially structure whatever we might
want to go forward with
and I've really appreciated the
discussion today and it's been a
terrific set of issues that everybody's
raised and thank you and I'll leave it
at that
well thank you uh commissioner for
finishing up before your six and a Half
Men that you had two and a half minutes
left wait a minute I wanted I wanted to
say one other thing that I I forgot uh
Jake Redford made a a very good comment
which is
uh we can continue to kind of ad hoc add
a at a McDonald's here and a whatever
there but I do think that we should all
be sitting back and thinking that
um
that with uh Goldenrod
we do have an opportunity to do
something at the next level and there is
a value to that I don't know what value
to put on that but we should consider
that so uh Jake thank you for that input
okay thank you commissioner
okay next is going to be uh Jeff
steinborn let's see if he can get on
Senator steinborn are you available
he said he was having a little bit of a
glitch so why don't I just go ahead and
go to uh commissioner Reynolds and then
I can go Circle back to senator
steinborn
commissioner Reynolds are you there I am
can you hear me okay yes got the seven
and a half minutes you got the full
seven and a half minutes because you you
didn't want to donate any of your time
I didn't know how long I had so I guess
that's why I didn't donate anything okay
all right thank you very much Mr Mayor
uh counselors um uh Mr wink weigert I
appreciate it and everyone else I have a
a couple of questions and I'm one of the
first one is um the tid request is
actually for like 42 million dollars if
I understand it correctly
and you're requesting uh 75 percent
of the GRT and property tax
and in fact if I calculate that
correctly I think you said that there
would be about three eight point four
seven million dollars a year will be
collected uh estimated collection for
taxes
so if I project that out at uh 25 years
that equals 91 million dollars
and so what we're doing is we're
financing 42 million and it's estimated
to cost us carrying charges somewhere in
the neighborhood of
42 million or 43 million so I don't know
who's doing the financing but if we
looked into New Mexico Finance Authority
because I think they might be able to do
those carrying charges a little better
first first question
the second question is if I take the 42
million dollars
and uh I actually divide that by three
and a half million dollars a year we
could actually pay this off in uh 12
years
so we wouldn't have to go the whole 25
years if we assumed that we have zero
percent interest or we could negotiate
the interest on that we could have this
42 million dollar Ted paid off in 12
years
but let's assume that we go the whole 25
years and we take the 42 million and
divide it by that then at that rate it
only cost us one point
seven million dollars a year
so then and looking at it from that side
we could actually lower the amount that
we collect of the of the GRT and
property taxed only 36 percent
so I guess my my observation here is
that if we actually collect a whole
three and a half million and provide
that to pay off the 42 million then the
developer will have his money back in
roughly 12 years
so this is really a return on investment
from what I can see from the developer
to say we're going to invest the 42
million and you're going to have it paid
back to us in a certain amount of time
so we're going to basically cash out in
12 to 15 years and the next 10 years is
going to be money that we'll be paying
kind of on interest or will be able to
have allocate it to some other projects
so I guess I guess a couple of questions
I have about that is you know are we
really locked into a 70 or 75 percent uh
investment here on the GRT and the
property tax I mean can we do 40 percent
can we do 50 can we refinance to uh New
Mexico Finance Authority to try to
negotiate our
our interest rate because I know with
the current um
the current uh status of the United
States financing uh you know zero zero
percent interest this money is out there
so we might be able to negotiate a
pretty good rate if we go if we stay in
State uh for the financing so that's my
first observation I'd like to really get
in seriously negotiate the terms of the
of the financing for the Ted and the
amount and years we're going to be
financing so if we're going to do the
three and a half million or seventy
percent let's keep it to 15 years if
we're going to do
you know uh 40 then I don't mind doing
it for 25 years uh I think that that
would actually indicate a true
partnership
is is looking at them to come to the
table and say we're willing to postpone
our
uh return on investment over the whole
period of the term rather than them
getting paid back in 12 to 15 years and
us having to continue to collect the
money covering most of the mostly
interest at that point so that's my
first observation
my second question is are we also
collecting School tax off of the
property in this
okay so if we do the property tax we're
not touching any of those School tax
correct
anybody know
okay I guess uh Cassandra's shaking her
head no so that I guess indicates that
this doesn't include school taxes
collected on the property okay
so even if it's not uh based on the
development uh estimates that they're
going to have create another 513
households other than the uh
the Elderly Care
then uh 513 households are going to
produce children of some sort in our
education system so we could end up
having to build a whole new school we
could end up having to build an
elementary maybe a expand a Junior
School junior high school or something
in it for that District alone so I think
it's important that we consider the
number of Elementary children that would
actually be created by this and how
we're going to find the funding to build
another school uh because I think that's
going to be an impact that we probably
haven't thought about uh and so I think
we need to really be seriously seriously
looking at that
the last thing we had um
we had Mr George Wolford
um look at our um look at the proposal
on our behalf at the county
and he made he made two observations I'd
like to share
uh number one he says if you look at the
New Mexico State Statute
515-7 for 10 project goals I know you're
all uh resolution of uh 20 2009 I think
it is 20 0.69 doesn't include the same
goals exactly but he looked at the goals
for the county side of it and said that
we do still have to meet these and it's
New Mexico statute 5-15-7
and for the five goals are the job
creation Workforce housing
public school facilities creation and
Improvement
demonstrates Innovative planning and
Tech techniques and also sustainable
development considerations
and according to his analysis of this
current tid as it exists right now
doesn't really meet those requirements
of five five fifteen seven
uh that doesn't mean that I'm not
interested in this development as a
matter of fact I do totally support the
idea of trying to figure out how to
partner on this development and make
this happen because I think this is a
good idea however I think it's that we
are um the onus is on us to take a fine
pencil sharp pencil and go over some of
these numbers and make sure that this is
a partnership rather than just a city
going forward and supporting something
because it needs to be done I'd love to
see this thing succeed I'd like to see
it to be a true partnership and that
maybe maybe we continue with the 75
percent but maybe they covered you know
10 to 20 million of the infrastructure
we cover the other 10 to 20 million I
mean I'm just saying I think there's
room for negotiation and I think we need
to go back to the drawing board and
spend a little bit more time with this
trying to figure out exactly where we
can get a break even uh support the
needs we need for the schools uh try to
create some make sure we have
sustainable technology uh Innovative
planning techniques uh I don't see any
real development plans how these things
are going to be done and uh I think we
need a little bit more information about
how the development is going to mature
before we truly move forward but you
know for all the people out there I I'm
in favor of trying to get this to make
this thing work okay thank you very much
for the time
thank you commissioner
next we're going to see if uh Senator
steinborn wow you made it with like one
second three seconds to go
good job
were you a Toastmaster you know how to
speak in seven minutes and 30 seconds no
I felt like I've been toasted quite a
few times but I'm never a master at it
okay good uh Senator steinborn are you
there I am mayor thank you oh so you've
got six and a half minutes because you
gave one minute away
very good mayor council uh interested
parties good to be with everybody I'm
state Senator Jeff steinborn I represent
the area in question there in the
country club and I have to say that I
came to this um issue in this discussion
today not by being urged by anyone
involved in fact I somehow wasn't on any
of the emails that were floating around
I saw a headline in The Sun News saying
that the city council is going to be
voting on a tick the next day and I was
in the legislature back in 2007 uh right
after we created the 10 law in New
Mexico and the very first hit and of
course kids in the history of the state
generally sought to capture the state
portion of the gross receipts as well
which this one could attempt if it comes
into being at some point but there
thereby the state has to approve this as
well the very first one we heard was a
big big kid they hired I think 10
lobbyists it was it was quite quite a
quite a scene and ultimately it was
defeated in the legislature but New
Mexico we kind of came into this
discussion
at the develop the controversial
developer tent model we we just bypassed
all the you know help develop blighted
areas and deploy public infrastructure
and we went right straight to Big Time
development
um subsidy kind of controversy model and
uh and it and so when I see the word tit
I instantly kind of as a public official
and someone with some experience there
my alarm Bells go off so I so I dug into
the plan and I quickly kind of
ascertained some concerns that I sent to
you all before your first discussion and
I appreciate the staff at least
recognizing that one of them was was a
reasonable concern and that was that the
tid would finance a hundred thousand
dollar a year and develop a marketing
fees but I have to tell you I I want to
just highlight for you what I think are
some big picture concerns I as a citizen
an elected official and I would
encourage you all as as counselors
um kind of new to the tit issue to also
think about
and I'll just kind of walk through those
and mayor it's obvious you're not voting
today I would really recommend coming
out of this discussion unless the
council well
should the council decide to move
forward I think it's clearly important
to bring in some of these some of these
outside voices to help maybe improve the
plan but having said that I think the
first question is whether or not the
plan should go forward and the first Big
Challenge I see here is is whether or
not this incentive passes the butt for
tests and that really is a huge huge
question that the city has to answer but
not for for giving the special treatment
to this development would you really not
create these jobs and
you know again and my role as a
legislator I have to vote on tax
incentives all the time and it really is
the key question to know whether or not
you're stimulating development or you're
just giving a handout
um I think one thing that it's a big red
flag with the butt 4 standard is the
fact that a hospital already exists
there
so and the hospital clearly did not need
this kid to come into existence
I was troubled frankly by the first
presentation by staff that said but not
for this incentive we wouldn't create
activity and then when you read into the
plan you find buried in there that
they've already had development and
they've already committed it to uh
reimburse for this public infrastructure
so that's kind of troubling but it makes
you wonder is what other development is
already in the queue
um
you know normally hospitals do have
Associated Office Buildings they have
set up llc's specifically for that
purpose it kind of lends the impression
that that maybe investment is dialed up
not only in some of those auxiliary
ancillary businesses for the hospital
but maybe for other pieces as well in
which case is the kid needed at all and
and I think it's a serious question I
mean we we appreciate
um economic development in this town and
and uh and I support that as much as
anyone but but we shouldn't do this just
for the sake of doing it I'm really
concerned mayor council that within this
plan there's a million dollar uh million
dollar commitment from taxpayers to fund
basically
the operations of this commercial
neighborhood in terms of landscaping
Insurance there was marketing fees but
that's basically uh 1.2 million dollars
a year which you can that's a hell of a
lot of money over the course of this kid
25 years
um
I uh I'm I am concerned about the
comments made by by Kerry at the green
chamber about the uh giving preferential
treatment to One commercial neighborhood
and all the businesses that locate there
and we are at a very tough time uh
certainly for all the other businesses
and I think you're starting to see
concern from people in other businesses
in other areas saying wait a minute this
sounds like we're tipping the scales a
little bit and in this case it would be
a city tilting of that scale which I
think is a concern
um I do think we need to look up
one question that has not been answered
which is a key question is who's going
to pay for these bonds if the tid goes
belly up or if these llc's shut down
we've heard that the developer has risk
and the developer was putting up money
but but I'm trained as a legislator look
at the fine print and the reality of
this document this agreement says that
the tid can Finance 100 of this public
infrastructure with bonds
and so in spite of whatever commitments
made that's the legal rights they would
have if this agreement were to go into
effect so let's say and Mr weigert's
plan uh 20 some odd million dollar
initial Bond separating the big parking
garage that would seem to build out a
lot of these roads potentially what
happens if we build these roads
and then there's no development
who's on the hook how is this what's the
city's Financial exposure for these
bonds it's something I'm very concerned
about and it seems to me any plan should
stagger development along with achieving
benchmarks so that we don't end up with
a proverbial Road to Nowhere here in
this neighborhood and I think the fact
that we've seen all these llc's get
established kind of trigger that risk
about people trying to Shield create you
know protect themselves from liability
and it doesn't give a feel of longevity
of comfort but nonetheless I just think
those are questions we need to be asking
um there's other things that's your
timer
um okay we'll just take one more minute
and we'll just have to tell Eva she has
like none okay okay well I'll just close
up mirror with a few other that's the
lack of a procurement code concerns me
because I think that ultimately means
your this work will be done for lower
wages and sole source contracts to
friends of the developers
um there's no green space really in the
spirit of the Apodaca plan built
throughout this plan
um and uh and finally I think we do need
to look at the performance issues of the
developer to see if if we feel
comfortable that um that they will
ultimately follow through I know last
time tetrad was before the council there
was a commitment made on uh on
purpose-built studio and it cost us a
year and a half and ultimately that
didn't happen so
I think that's something else that the
council needs to ground truth to know if
this is the right partner at this time
thank you Mr Mayor and Council
appreciate it
Senator I'm really impressed she had
some good questions thank you
so um
councilor sword did you still want to
wait because I was going to ask some
questions did you want to wait out till
after me or did you want to ask your
questions now no I I'll I'll go first if
you don't mind sure go ahead now I'm
very gonna be very brief as usual I just
wanted to follow up on uh comments that
um Council of bencomo and mayor Pro tem
gandaru mentioned about how they lived
close to this area I too live close to
this area I know it very well
um
and uh I just want to make clear that
everybody that I would love to see this
developed in a unique uh
um uh smart growth uh new urbanism type
of development and and something we can
all enjoy of course I just that I I have
some concerns about using tax dollars to
do it and as everything buddy was
talking about this I uh came up with an
idea that I'm gonna throw out there and
and prove me wrong uh this is an analogy
um most of us own a house and
um just say your house uh uh you could
use uh some addition some remodeling
some maybe a new rule for something and
you used uh city government uh general
fund tax dollars to do it
um uh that would be an increase in the
value of your house whether you sold it
or not you would have that increase in
value and so therefore I think this is
the very what we're trying to do with
this did
um it would add more wealth to your
house and at the expense of those tax
dollars used there where they could have
been used for other things like uh new
social programs such as better Rex and
park and uh also quality of life
programs and so that's what I'm is the
difference here
um and just remember remind everybody
that there are other ways of doing this
uh there are credits and and incentives
that the city has the state has the
federal government has to develop here
because of where it's at the infill of
it is and last but not least don't
forget the volunteer assessment District
I would definitely think there would be
a fitting uh program to use on this and
that would provide the uh uh uh
financing them the the investment the
money to get started on it so um yeah
uh just so you know I've been through
this before I've seen this before uh in
the city council and and and the past so
I'm very familiar with what it's all
about thank you mayor thank you
counselor and actually
um one of the things you said you said
um there are different ways and I think
you said something about the government
and actually
um if I'm correct and I'm going to
verify that here in just a second
because I I think I heard Zach mention
it uh I think they are using one of the
various tools that the federal
government provides but anyways let me
go ahead and ask a few questions here
let me go first to Mandy if she's still
she's still around
Mandy are you there yes yes okay can you
come back to the to the
the numbers again so and I think
you know like what the total amount is
going to be for this if we were to move
forward with this Ted what is the total
numbers uh
this Development Group one was looking
at was it 41 million
so Marin the tid plan there it's a 42
million dollars of public infrastructure
that covers the streets
um utilities parks and parking and then
uh we would also look at going into an
operations and maintenance agreement
um at full build out that's about that's
looking at one million a year one of the
things that I would like to mention is
that that would that would be at full
build out so it would not be one million
dollar a year and year one
um and again the we would be they would
be reimbursed for actual expenses okay
so it would so that 42 is a a an
estimate
um as is the one million a year okay so
that 42 would be reimbursement to the
Developers
it would be reimbursement to yes the
developer
developer okay and then uh
there that's you said that would be what
it cost to keep the streets maintained
the park clean things of this nature is
that what you're talking about yes it
would be the full operations and
maintenance cost for the for that
infrastructure okay
and uh so let me just ask you something
uh Zach
weaker thank you Mandy so I think I
heard you say you've done like about 70
of these tiffs or tens no between 15 and
20. well fifteen twenty I said 70
entities that are similar llc's like
this
okay
so
um and I think I heard you quite a few
quite quite a bit extensive real estate
holdings
couple billion yeah yeah that's what I
thought two billion
um and did I hear you say that that the
reason why you wanted this
Ted was because the infrastructure was
pretty expensive
no that the rates for private rates for
what it costs to build in the market
doesn't justifiability and what we're
showing building in our PUD
okay so
um because you said something about
structuring costs to build apartments in
Las Cruces is very similar to the
construction cross in Omaha or Kansas
City or Dallas and you get about between
95 cents to a dollar there in Dallas you
get two bucks a foot for apartments and
no more you get a dollar forty for
apartments the revenue the rates aren't
there to keep up with the cost of
construction
okay so but but the reason why you
wanted to be reimbursed was obviously to
add to your bottom line because you felt
that those costs were pretty expensive
in order to build a project in Las
Cruces and at the rates that people are
accustomed to paying in Las Cruces the
infrastructure costs on top of building
the actual physical apartment building
makes that number too great okay
um and I and I think I just barely
caught the tail end of it did you you
mentioned that this is in uh some type
of a Zone
it's an opportunity Zone which the
government all they're doing is is you
get to defer capital gains tax that you
normally would pay
and so you had to actually earn the
money owe it in taxes and be able to
defer it if you don't have deferred
taxes and profitability within your
company there is no incentive
opportunity Zone
so to my colleagues just uh quick did
you did you want to disclose discuss
what what capital gains means like short
term and long term
yeah there's two types of income in real
estate There's real incoming capital
gains and unreal income there's
distributions capital gains is on a sale
so we sold some projects a couple years
ago we had a bunch of capital gains the
incentive that was done as an
opportunity Zone was you could set up an
entity defer capital gain tax payment to
the federal government but you have to
hold that
that investment for a period of time
where you owe the capital gains as soon
as you sell it
so if you hold it for seven years you
only pay 85 percent of what your
original capital gains were and if you
hold it for 10 years when you sell it
you don't pay capital gains on any
profit
yeah so let me um
let me just share with my colleagues to
make it a little bit simpler
so
let's say you have a piece of property
you bought for a thousand dollars you
sold it for two thousand dollars let's
say you sold it two months later
uh you made a thousand dollar profit so
you're you would have what they call
short-term capital gains it could be as
high as say 37 so that thousand dollars
you made 37 370 dollars that you'd have
to pay in taxes if you keep it longer
than a year it's usually like 20 which
means it's 200 so obviously you want to
keep it longer there's a reason where
I'm where I'm going with this okay
I'm trying to figure this out here one
of the questions that that Peter Goodman
asked and even Senator steinborn and I
think I think I
figured out why you have that hospital
there
so this opportunity Zone came in
2017 2018 something new with this
Administration so before that if you had
a piece of property
instead of paying taxes you would do
what they call a 1031 exchange
like kind property this opportunity Zone
you can you can take your profits people
who have these these these gains and
instead of paying taxes they can they
can invest in this area is that correct
yeah if you if you owe capital gains tax
which is a 21 tax rate is if you invest
in an opportunity Zone it gives you an
ability to defer it you still owe it you
defer it for seven months but unless you
hold it for 10 years
no you still have to pay 85 percent of
the original taxes seven years later if
you hold it for 10 years and sell the
land at a profit then you don't know
capital gains on the profit
at all on the profit
well but what I'm saying is is I roll
you roll your capital gains is you have
to own it for seven years you still pay
the tax on that capital gains 85 percent
of it after seven years so if I took a
million dollars put it in there I know
that tax still seven years later this on
the sale of the property that I put the
money in I don't know capital gains if I
hold it for 10 years
so if you have a bunch of investors who
who instead of doing 1031 exchange they
invest in this opportunity Zone they
could theoretically invest in that
hospital and not have to pay taxes the
hospital is not we did not do an
opportunity Zone investment in the
hospital it doesn't work under a limited
partnership so so that the hospital is
not an opportunity Zone investment okay
so this Opera this area here that you're
talking about this tit is going to be an
opportunity opportunity Zone we set up
that's why we set up a second entity
because it has to have its own LLC to be
an opportunities on investment so that's
why we set up a second entity the
hospital is not it's in an opportunity
Zone but it's not an opportunity Zone
investment
I thought something had to be done by
the end of 2019 December 2019. what was
it it's already set up we put the money
we put into it as far as costs that
we've spent thus far plus land costs was
our opportunities on money we put in
there
in in this this proposed hit area in the
purchase of the land where the Ted's at
the 76 Acres yes so if you were to hold
it for 10 years because you mentioned
something about 10 years
if you were to hold it for 10 years and
then sell it whatever is there and then
whatever whatever you you build on that
the gain is not taxable is that correct
yes but it's only on the portion of it
that was originally put in so we put in
a couple million dollars to buy the land
that was deferred capital gains but
we're building a 400 million dollar
project it's only on the cache that was
deferred I mean we're going to have to
put in 100 million dollars of other
Capital that won't be treated as
opportunity zone so if you build
something for 100 million and you sell
it for 200 million that 100 million
profit won't be deferred if you kept it
for for set where for 10 years or more
it's it's only on the capital that you
put in that was deferred
so if we put a hundred million dollars
of capital in only the 2 million that we
deferred counts as an opportunity Zone
deferment is this a deferment of taxes
on your own taxes at all this okay so
are you a liberty to discuss what you've
already set aside for this obviously
we've put we've put in about two million
dollars or so whatever we paid for the
ground we're probably two and a half 2.6
million into the ground that was our
portion of that we used opportunities on
funds
okay back to the hospital the hospital
investment is an LP I'm a general
partner I have limited partners we
couldn't structure it in an opportunity
so that is not an opportunity as an
investment so you're doing all this just
to save taxes on the 2.5 million which
would have been probably I don't know
half a million dollars in taxes
all that for this to save that
I don't know you mean all that for this
well I'm doing this I'm doing it to do a
development I'm not doing it it's just
I'm just letting you know that's why
there's another entity that's an
opportunism okay no I I'm not doing it
because of the opportunity zone I'm
doing it because I thought it was a good
development being next to our Hospital
okay so earlier last week when when you
and I spoke and I think some of our
staff was uh present obviously not
members of the public but uh and it was
more just you yourself and me and a few
uh staff people
I had brought up
the suggestion about the city and again
this is up to council to do this but us
purchasing that land from you for the
two and a half million and then Lee sent
it back and I I figured we would let you
think about it and kind of share with us
what you thought about that idea
uh I mean there's always ways to do
things like that I think you're giving
up tax revenue that you would otherwise
generate but
um I mean like I've told you before
we've done lots of ground lease
transactions in the past with
universities and stuff where you know
they own property that was gifted to
them and they no longer want to sell it
so our tax revenues are only like 17
percent
uh the schools get 39 the county gets 36
percent we get like 17 it's not what I'm
saying is when we create the increment
we bought into the land at 50 cents a 50
cents a foot if the land once we put in
the infrastructure and build a couple
hundred million dollars we're building
that land could be worth twelve dollars
a foot you would give up that increment
because now it's publicly owned yeah no
I I hear you but I mean when you the
what you've presented and the number of
jobs it could create and what you what
the vision is is huge and earlier I
think I heard you mention that if if
this didn't move forward you probably
wouldn't want to do it
no I was saying what I've said
consistently is is we're not going to
build what's per our development will be
completely different we're not going to
build the what we're having our PUD
because there is no Financial
feasibility to do it
I think I think it's a
I think it's um
you know you obviously are
sophisticated the investor if you were
to go to a bank and you were going to
borrow money
uh they would say okay so what are you
going to put up as collateral
wouldn't you think normally
whatever you buy I have lots of loans
yes yeah if you buy a car your car is
the collateral you buy a house the house
is collateral so earlier that works very
well yeah earlier you heard Senator
steinborn ask what would happen if
can you answer that question I have I
have a great answer for that question
so Senator steinborn is concerned about
us covering our Ted payment if we Bond
the tid
the reason why the hospital should be
part of the tip because the GRT and the
property tax off the hospital will cover
the payment
so part of this is the reason why the
hospital you want the hospital because
the hospital's GRT and property taxes
when fully assessed on property taxes
will cover the payment to put in the
infrastructure
okay so what I was going to ask you
was in the event we didn't do a a lease
uh what about
some of your other Holdings that you
have
um either either a line a letter of
credit
or uh some type of thing for what I
don't understand what you're saying well
in case uh something was to happen and
this doesn't move forward like the full
build out is being proposed we're we're
going and borrowing the money we owe the
money the city doesn't owe the money we
just want to set up a mechanism in order
to get our taxes reimbursed to cover the
cost we're not asking to say to
guarantee any debt
to get your taxes covered what we want a
process that we can pay our property tax
and our GRT taxes and have a what this
tit is basically saying is you're going
to reimburse a portion of our own taxes
back to us we just want that process and
procedure in place we're not asking you
to guarantee any debt I thought you
wanted the the your infrastructure back
the 42 million dollars yeah but we're
paying for it
we're going to go borrow 20 million
dollars and put in all the roads and
streets and all this we've gone and done
market we've done uh traffic study
analysis we've done everything and said
here's what this all will cost to build
a new intersection do all the roads
sewer water we're going to go borrow
that money and pay it back with that
reimbursement of tax over time it's our
own money we owe the debt not the city
so I don't know what the letter of
credit would be for yeah
um in case you didn't do it
in case it didn't come we have we have
we have to build it in order to even
generate the money to do it
so my point is there's a reason why we
like to get this approved because once
it's approved we still got to wait
another six months before we can do
anything to get approved at the state
level and so why would like to get this
done before the Pud is someone asked a
great question the reason for that I
think was Fishburne was a great comment
was the reason why is because what we
would Design Within the Pud would
greatly be different without the tip
and so what we would like to do is get
the know that this process is in place
the ten it's a financing process it
doesn't create money we still have to
build everything and pay our taxes
what it would do is is give us the
ability to go like okay now we're going
to work on our PUD and we're going to
build these apartments and this Senior
Living Facility in this office building
so we know we're phasing it all in the
other thing that the city can be
comfortable with is that we made a 60
million dollar investment in the
hospital invested 27 million dollars of
cash in your city to build a hospital in
MLB that will generate the GRT and the
property taxes which will cover our debt
which is our debt not the cities
so it was a very well thought out plan
and we're happy to share all that
information with people we're not trying
to do anything we're Finance people we
understand financing very well
so
um what about after the if we were to
after you complete what you're doing and
then we kind of just pay you back as you
go I mean as you as you start developing
what you're developing I mean uh and
then kind of do the tip almost after the
fact
so you want us to invest 25 million
dollars or 21 million infrastructure not
knowing if the kid's in place
well I'm sure we can probably have
something worked out but we're saying
that after you've completed what you
need to complete then we start
paying the tid or doing whatever we need
to do you know kind of a pay as you go
type thing
pay as you go so I I get I don't know
what a tit is a pay as you go I mean
we're taking on the debt you know we've
shown the city staff our financials you
know we sent them the information so all
that's been given to your city staff
folks to review our financials our
capabilities of doing the project
we broke down all of our entities how
their own for them so this information
has all been given we don't we don't
give that public information to people
we had it reviewed priority okay
the question would be is is to to move
the project forward what we're saying is
is a process and procedure it's still
dollars we're investing in creating
income let me know what you mean by we
can't build the buildings without the
infrastructure there let me ask Mandy a
couple questions and uh we'll kind of go
from there so Mandy let me go back to
you again on the 40 million dollars
Okay so
run by run Us by the uh
how it would look so to give us the
first step
if if we were to move forward with the
Ted
uh Mr weiger goes and
borrows his 42 million dollars and
starts putting in all the infrastructure
at once is that what is that what I'm
hearing him say
uh mayor I I wouldn't like to speak for
Zach so I won't I won't do that but to
answer your question on what the process
looks like
um if the tid is implemented
um then what will happen next is um Zach
would move forward with his development
and as they put in the infrastructure
the pieces that were approved in the tid
plan
um once they get the actual cost for
that as increment comes into the tid
they would send invoices to the tid
board to be approved to re be reimbursed
so if there was no increment to cover
the cover those costs they obviously
would not be able to reimburse
um and number so that's the first thing
and then the second thing is it would um
we're not he he may not do any all
immediately it would be throughout the
plan so it's unlikely that all of that
would be done in one year in fact I
think in the tip plan he shows it over a
number of years
um so as the increment grows so does the
infrastructure and so we reimburse back
um so so wouldn't
wouldn't
um the answer question mayor our first
phase is about 12 million dollars and we
don't plan on borrowing any more money
after that
okay so we what the 42 million is is a
list of public improvements that we that
uh are eligible to be paid for by the
tip okay we may never build a parking
garage if the Pud is not approved with
the density that we that we want then
there's no reason to have a parking
garage a lot of we wanted with City
staff why the parking was part of it
because we wanted a mass parking plan so
every single building doesn't have to
see a parking lot in front of it like if
you look at the hospital it's just this
massive parking lot and so we wanted the
ability to have all of all the owners
across Park and I have just all parking
everywhere
so Zach what would be the 12 million
dollars so that covers if you look at
our phasing of all of our plans so we
have a phasing of development through
these phases you know so phase one is
this first five years in the next five
years basically basically puts in all
the basic infrastructure
intersection
and does all the basic infrastructure in
green spaces that are all shown on a
project so everyone's looking at this 42
million as we're going to go borrow 42
million dollars day one that is like
over a 25-year period of everything that
could possibly happen that's public
okay so to me I don't think we'll but we
won't put another uh debt on the
property
above and beyond the 12 million dollars
and that that's my plan I don't think we
need it it's just that 42 million dollar
number if you look there's a parking
garage we just want to build you in the
future and say like hey we'd like to
continue to do more development here
this is a densified urban walkable
project we may need a parking garage so
that's a potential thing that could
happen but we would act I absolutely we
would have to do all the density and the
need for that and the taxes for that to
justify it in the future
like she was saying the operation of
Maintenance we're showing a million 1.1
million that's with all the square
footage everything built out we're not
with that operation maintenance we're
not dedicating all the roads to the city
we're paying for all that maintenance as
part of its head so these are all things
that if we dedicate all those roads the
city would be doing all that same
maintenance and all that stuff anyway
we're paying for it the Ted's paying for
it that's why that number is that that
way because we're not making the city
pay for it
okay so thank you so Mandy so have you
had a chance to tell me tell us right
now what that area generates in taxes
approximately didn't have the exact
uh mayor actually I believe that was
also in Zach's presentation 38 000. 38
000 a year so so 38 000
are you just expecting us to turn to 30
000 over to you or are you expecting us
to use this as as Debt Service to to
borrow money to 38 000 so we only get
the increment above it so today the
taxes are 38 000. we only get a
percentage of the increment above the 38
000. so whatever you've been collecting
thus far before the Ted you still
collect we only get a portion above what
we create we only get the increment
above so that 38 000 is your Baseline
and then we would share in the revenues
that they paid above that the increment
above that so you're not expecting us to
use that 38 000 a year which comes out
to let's just say three thousand a month
or a little bit more to be used at Debt
Service to to float a bond to reimburse
you no not at all again the the point of
attitude is that it's the increment so
that 38 000 will continue to come to the
Gen the state or the city the general
fund
um and that will not change and so what
happens is as as the development happens
and there's more so in the next year
it's a hundred and thirty eight thousand
just using round numbers 38 still goes
to the general fund and then for the
property tax it would be 75 would go
into tid and 25 would come into the
city's general fund so as it grows both
the amount coming to the general fund
and the amount going to the tid grow
okay no well because in the past with
our Ted we could use incoming Revenue to
bond if we wanted to build something
and so I just wanted to make sure that
we
mayor but we would use only the tit we
only in the the downtown did it was only
the increment not that original Baseline
Yeah well yeah but I wanted to know if
he was expecting us to you know what if
it was moving slow and monies weren't
coming in right away but we we had a we
had some a revenue Source I just wanted
to clarify because I wasn't sure whether
or not he was expecting us to to bond to
pay back his infrastructure you know you
know what I'm saying so you're saying
it'll just be strictly anything above 38
000 at the
at the uh 70 level
for the G for the GRT it would be at 70
and for the property tax it's at 75 and
then whatever is generated this goes
back to to uh Mr weigert and his group
we're infrastructure
it goes in the The Tib board has it and
then they pay for what's in that tid
plan so
um that would be uh Mr wigert's
um company would say we've done this
infrastructure and they would submit
invoices with actual
um actual payments and that's what that
increment would pay for
yeah okay so
Mr weigert wigger
yeah so I'm sorry about that I apologize
um
the reason why I brought up the
opportunity Zone and is really important
is because
theoretically
yeah and this is where I needed some
clarification
because after 10 years remember how I
mentioned that if you have if you have
an opportunity Zone uh whatever capital
gains you have after if you hold it for
10 years if you were to sell it
then those capital gains are waived is
that correct
only on the portion of the equity that
you put in so I mean if I put in 100 but
I only put two in of opportunities on
money so it's only on the two
okay I'm gonna have to take you at what
you say because it's just well Andrew is
an expert I mean so Kendra who's on the
phone I don't know if she's still on
she's an expert on this I mean she's set
up all of our Nas are attorney and it's
it's only on the portion of the equity
you put in so whatever deferment I use
when that money comes back out at Pro
rata uh I get the the break on it but
it's only that portion and there's gonna
be so much more Equity put in this
project than the two things and that's
my my you know what's my clarification
is that you don't just up and sell
things after 10 years and you know you
whatever you have you know I'm just that
would not be the plan yeah I I hear you
that's why the money and the opportunity
is going so minor here it would not even
be that would not be a reason to sell in
10 years well that's why I just was um
I've never this is a relatively New
Concept it just came out here a year and
a half ago yeah it's taken quite a bit
of time I have some other ones that I
put 16 and 17 million dollars in so but
this one we only put two in for full
disclosure
so right right because that's the only
expense we really had at the time was
buying the land you know we've been
waiting to do the development working on
this with the city so
okay well I that's what I just wanted to
clarify those uh
those uh questions I think that's the
other thing too mayor just real quick to
add I think Mandy and them have done a a
great job you're selling Andy great job
today by the way you're well represented
with your city folks they're very very
detailed folks uh the the I think the
key for everyone to remember here is
it's only dollars we don't want a burden
our project with more debt than we need
and so we can I can send you like here's
what our first phase of infrastructure
looks like it basically gets all the
roads in and things like that and the
parks and these things established uh we
don't want to put more done on the
project than we need to the 42 million
was like if we did everything
potentially that could be here that
would be the number
um the other thing is it's just actual
costs uh like when it comes to operation
maintenance when it comes to putting in
the infrastructure is just a
reimbursement of what it actually costs
to do that work and we have to build
them all the city standards so they're
going to come out and say okay here's
your right away here's your road that is
the city standard they know what it
costs to do it this isn't like we get a
blank check to go out and spend money it
does us no good to put more debt on
it's just more taxes that to be good to
pay all that back we there is no benefit
to us to put more debt on the project so
if we can keep our debt down and do an
initial uh financing to do the
infrastructure and keep that number down
what I think will happen is you'll see
we'll have a lot of money accumulate
within the tid because we won't spend it
all
and so you guys's ideas of AD in Apodaca
Park and some other roads and some
things like that and it total sense to
me so we would be willing to do
something where there was an overflow of
cash in the tid if it got to a certain
overflow we would say yeah we'll release
some money of the tip back to the city
and let them do some of these other
projects I mean it does the snowman it
does us no benefits sitting here
so I mean that would be the point and
then the other point would be with a
hospital in mob when we do that
infrastructure is no real concern about
us not being able to pay on that because
the plan was is having that hospital in
MLB those revenues will be coming off
there because they're two years ahead of
fire construction from the rest of the
project to cover that to cover that
infrastructure payment that we're gonna
have to make
okay
which is our collateral I mean it's we
built the hospital we built the mob
those revenues those are the taxes we're
paying
um we'll cover that cost
[Music]
okay well the the good thing is is it
appears to be no no timelines because I
thought you were under a timeline
regarding this opportunity zone so it
doesn't appear as though not on the
opportunity Zone it's just on the tit
and I know this is everyone's concern
with the timing of this but I think if
we focus on once if this mechanism is in
place I mean we're willing to give up
any inflows into the tid that are above
and beyond what we would spend I mean
that's we're doing projections that are
25 years long you know you're saying
okay well costs are going to go three
percent a year I mean it's all net
present you know present value of
rejections if we put in the
infrastructure of 12 million and we
don't have to borrow any more money and
we can do other little improvements in
the district with cash as we do projects
that's what we're going to do we don't
want to put more debt on
well and and I know that you're you have
a certain timeline to get the tit done
uh the July portion but earlier I think
and I think I'll I will
um support what my colleagues say
um I think that
you know we've I've only done one other
tin and that's the downtown
and so uh you know I'm we're of course
we the city council act as the tip board
and so uh you know we've used Monies to
if we needed to bond incoming revenues
to bond other improvements and so of
course there lies in one of the concerns
you know if the city doesn't have that
much control
um you know what could be would be
utilized or what would this money be
used for so I guess what I'm trying to
say is
I I can't speak for the rest of my
colleagues I think I just heard one say
that they probably would like to have
more information and I probably would
have to say that as well but I will tell
you this much
and I appreciate our staff clarifying it
but I can I can tell you this much you
know I I feel a lot more better I feel
better about it now than I did before
because there was these unknowns that
obviously we needed to have vetted
um I'll still put it on the agenda uh
but Council may you know they'll have
their options of what they do either
table it approve it or
deny it uh after this meeting I'll be
putting it on the agenda for for a vote
unless you you unless you you would
prefer me not to and I have an idea
talking offline with uh my counsel of if
if it's something where we can get an
approval but it doesn't kick into effect
until the Pud is approved so that gives
everyone the opportunity to have people
weigh in on what we're what we're saying
we're going to build there it's just
there's a mechanism that we have to turn
this in and you basically have six
months before you can spend a dollar
and so because anything we spend prior
to the state approving it it's not
eligible for the reimbursement
and so even once once the city approves
it we have a six-month lag period before
we can do anything so if you wait to
improve it in January we can't build
anything until the following June and
then we can't build anything until the
fall in January every six months and so
if it's something where we can say okay
well we'll sign off on it but we won't
officially Let It kick in or approve it
so the puds approved which I know a lot
of these comments are design based
comments of like hey what are you going
to build are you going to build things
that compete with our our local
retailers and these types of things
which are great questions by the way
um and I think we can show that no
that's not our plan I mean we want to
build a planned Urban Development that
is somewhere where people want to live
and work and walkable and all things
there's a lot of renewable elements that
we'd like to show people we spent a lot
of time on the Pud as well
um but it's just the reason why the tit
it's not like do it now or never do it
it's just that there's a huge lag of
time and we we won't invest any more
dollars into the site because they're
unreimbursable dollars
once we spend them now without the
taking place of the state we can't turn
it in for reimbursement
so as that increment grows we're just
we're throwing away money that can't go
back to pay back the infrastructure
costs
it's just the way the Ted works with the
state so once it's approved locally it's
city and county it has to go to the
state who's literally is six months away
before we can spend any money
okay
Mr Mayor
is that David
Mr Mayor good afternoon members Council
David Allen for the record I wonder
go on what Zach had just said please
bear in mind if the city and the county
approve this this still requires six
months of notice to Taxation and Revenue
because they have to set it up in their
Consolidated reporting system to collect
the tax and separate the percentage out
we had this issue with the timing of the
implementation on the 3 8 hold harmless
um so there's really only twice a year
that you can do it January or July and
we're already past July and so that's
why the schedule is what it is and Mr
weigert is correct
we won't start seeing money
um until six months from the effective
date so that's why we're trying to
that's why it's worked out this way but
we would be facing the same timeline uh
in come the end of the calendar year
because
if we don't get it to the state within
120 days of the of January 1 then we
have to wait until a hundred we have to
get it to them 120 days before the July
1 deadline so we dealt with that on the
3 8 and any other imposition of
um tax structure changes would occur it
has to occur within so many days of
January 1 or July 1.
okay thanks David
uh counselor Flores you have a comment
yes yes I do Mr Mayor thank you well all
that um
what I was trying to raise earlier
quite unsuccessfully
is
um so little may I ask you a question
about procedure insofar as next week's
meeting or is that inappropriate um
okay is it a perfect task about a
procedure you're talking to me or who
you were talking to well I'm taking
maybe I'm talking to David dollarhan or
Mr maestas or a City attorney or whoever
is capable of asking or uh qualified to
answer the question because
um
there are terms in the in the agreement
is Mr beagert going to be here uh next
week
Mr we
Gert are you going to be at next week's
meeting are you going to be available or
because is it a live meeting I I mean we
can be there no yeah
we'll be we'll be on like we are here
but I was assuming it wasn't an in
person
and at next Monday's meeting we will be
discussing uh the agreement
and the petition that goes along with
everything is that correct
um Mandy mayor and counselor Flores this
is Mandy guest from Economic Development
so at next week's meeting we'll be
discussing the resolution
um of intensiform
um and so the council passes a
resolution saying we intend to form the
tid and then we don't act there is not
actually
um
a formation until until after that 30 to
60 day or in that 30 to 60 day window
which would be looking at August 17th we
can absolutely discuss
um the the agreement and the question so
that those can be addressed
um next week as they are part of the
packet for the intent to form
okay because as I raised earlier the
resolution
excuse me the um
the resolution
the the
therefore part we're where poor who's
there for
um doesn't jive it just it doesn't make
sense to me so
I I guess that's something I wanted to
bring up because there has to be a cool
discussion we'll fully discuss then the
terms of the agreement which is
um like about 500 pages or so
councilor Florida would you would you
mind I mean you're I think you're
welcome to between now and and next
Monday have a a meeting with staff to
discuss this and yes I I will be uh
asking for a for a meeting with staff
and and I don't know I I thought our
City attorney was a person who was
involved with the process but it seems
like there's another attorney that they
worked with or that I'm yes okay
because I did send an email to Jennifer
and uh Mr maestas
uh questions and all that none of them
were answered so none of my questions or
touched on what was covered earlier at
any rate
um I think it's imperative and I would
also um I I don't know if any of you
have had an opportunity my fellow
counselors if I may
um read through that
um and you'll see there are some things
in the agreement that
um are called adhesion contracts and if
we vote to pass that resolution we may
be stuck with language
that wasn't an easy intended
foreign
that didn't sound good but um
hopefully everything's okay
let's give her a minute or so a few
seconds I mean
okay well oh there she's back
yeah Edie uh I think she's getting
hungry or something uh
but yeah I just I I really want to urge
everyone to really go through that
agreement and some of the terms it's um
I think somewhat lopsided uh that it
favors uh and then of course we really
fully have to discuss if this was to go
forward the composition of the board it
just we're comfortable with the tip we
have now because we we also we will also
look uh the running of the where the
board
so this is quite different and I'm not
sure it's really favorable
to the city or to our residents and
that's that's it thank you Mr Mayor yes
Mandy or or Zach who were you thinking
right now as uh as proposed that was
going to sit on that board
foreign
as far as from the private side it was
going to be myself and a local
representative that would manage the
location for us
and how many members did you think is
going to be five seven there's five
voting and then we were going to have a
non-voting member appointed by the city
to do uh basically uh accounting uh to
oversee make sure every dimes are
counted from the city's behalf
so yourself and and then your your local
rep
at least three seats
so so when one was going to be the state
taxing Authority and then two cities
what the plan was
because the GRT is accumulated by the
state
so you'd be okay with two City two city
council people members and if you said
one state person and then you're around
anyone anyone in the city wants to
appoint if it's council members or
whomever we're fine with that
okay
all right
well I think that pretty much concludes
our our work session uh Zach I
appreciate it very much
okay
um yeah I I
know all right well let's let's talk
between now and the next time we get
together but I think we're definitely
open to the idea of getting people
comfortable with uh what that that first
phase of infrastructure looks like uh we
could put a limit on that that makes
people comfortable
um you know and we'll have to generate
so much in tax in order to cover that
before we do anything else as far as
infrastructure we're fine with something
like that uh we're fine adding the other
areas that were discussed as far as
other roads or Apodaca park or things
like that
um it would just benefit the project to
have money going to the park and create
other amenities around that location so
we think that's a great idea and then
also if there is a tid that is generated
uh above and beyond the cover of the
cost of the infrastructure and the
um an ongoing operation maintenance
which are all actuals
um we'd be happy to have those monies
going uh back to the city or whatever
it's we're fine with that
so one of the things yeah one of the
things that um I would like to see is
and and I'll go with staff on this and
maybe bring it up Monday but um those
roads in in the neighborhood areas a lot
of them need to be redone and
um you know I don't know we might be
able we might have a revenue source to
bond and do those so I don't know we'll
see
okay well I think that pretty much
concludes our our work session uh been
very fruitful
I think everybody's had a chance to say
their concerns and um we'll see how
Monday goes
and I appreciate it very much
thanks mayor if there's nothing further
entertain a motion to adjourn
Gandara
[Music]
second by councilman Como that we
adjourn all those in favor signify by
saying aye
aye
aye opposed
are none we're adjourned at 608 pm