# Saltbox Founder Stories: Flock Safety | Full Episode # Saltbox — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izcjrK_gg48 Hey, I'm Tyler, co-founder and CEO here at Flock Safety. And I'm really excited to welcome you back to our ongoing series of Flock Safety founder stories. These are candid discussions with our members about their journeys in starting, operating, and scaling modern commerce companies. As you'll see, their businesses vary quite widely in size and industry. And yet, they all have one thing in common. Flock Safety is built for them. In just a moment, we'll hear from Garrett Langley, founder and CEO of Flock Safety. Garrett and I discuss modern-day crime fighting, creating impactful products that transform lives and communities, and building hyper-growth companies outside of Silicon Valley. I hope you'll enjoy. Garrett, uh Garrett Langley, I should say. Excuse me. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. founder and CEO of uh Flock Safety. So, uh uh I want to start by just asking you to tell us a bit about uh Flock Safety. What do you guys do? Yeah, so we are in the crime-fighting business. Uh our mission as a company is to eliminate crime. Uh and the way we kind of think about it is, why does crime exist? Uh it's typically acts of opportunity, right? I break into your house cuz I think I can get away with it. So, we kind of break that down and say, well, why does that happen? Happens because there's a lack of evidence. So, if if I break into your house, and all you know is that your home security system went off, that's not much to act on. So, what we do is build technology to capture evidence to eventually solve crime. And our kind of first product is what's called a license plate reading camera. So, we track cars, read license plates, so that if your home is broken into, we know who was in the neighborhood when that happened. Mhm. So, you know, my my uh coincidentally, I I my house was uh actually my my house my my car inside of kind of behind my house was robbed uh recently, and and uh I was very frustrated because the the police officer said, "Listen, you know, good luck. You know, we can't help you much." And so, it does seem that if they had this additional kind of uh contextual, you know, awareness, uh maybe uh things would be be a little bit different. Yeah, I mean, you unfortunately represent the 90% case. Yeah. So, only one out of 10 crimes actually gets solved. Yeah. And it And I mean, an officer showed up, right? An officer would have done something, but all you knew was like, it happened. And he's like, Here's your police report. Yeah, I'm very busy. Claim insurance, and I'm going to go work a case that does have evidence." And we always joke like, police departments are no different than a sales organization. Mhm. Follow the money. they will follow that hot lead. But if you just have no information, it's just like, "Hey, there's a company that exists. Go sell them." Yeah. What are they going to do? They're going to say, "Okay, I'll get to that eventually." Absolutely. So, we got a lot of questions for you, but I I want to start with a a really simple one. And that is just, why do you do what you do? Yeah, so I love solving problems. Um and I love working with people to solve problems. And so, for me, I've only ever started companies. I've never had a {quote} {unquote} real job. And about 3 years ago, um as I was winding out of a previous venture, um I called a few friends who I'd worked with and said, "Hey, do you want to start another one?" And they said, "Yeah, let's do it." And you know, 6 months later of long nights and toiling with different concepts, the idea of Flock came together. And kind of that old adage of like, do we want to commit the next 7 to 10 years of our life on this? And we said like, "Yeah, this would actually be This would be pretty impactful." Like, if we were to be ultimately successful and achieve our mission, it's something we'd be pretty proud of. So, that for me is like, what keeps me going is I got a, you know, text message from a customer last night. And it's like, "Hey, we just made an arrest and apprehended, you know, five occupants in a stolen car, and it was full of of unregistered guns." And it's like, "Okay, yeah, that That That's the type of energy, right? That it's like, "Okay, long days, long nights." But when you get those messages, you're like, "We're making a difference. We're doing something." I I can relate to that. And I think uh you know, I think back to my days at Palantir. And obviously, very hard work for all of us. Um but we had this incredibly ambitious mission. Excuse me, ambitious uh uh mission. And uh it was so impactful when you had a chance to actually see that impact, uh it really um made the work worth it in a way that I don't I've never experienced in any other sort of work. And I can see uh you know, a similar uh a similar sentiment that's present in your in your business. Yeah, I'd be curious, you know, at Flock, I'd say my favorite Slack channel is #solved. Mhm. And it's just our customer team feeding in, "Hey, we just talked to this customer. Here's the success they had. Here's the success." And like, I know, you know, for give you a local example, um there was an an attempted kidnapping that we solved or helped clear. We do the easy work, right? We just build the technology. Yeah. It's actual law enforcement that does the hard work. Uh and it was attempted kidnapping of a of a, you know, a young woman. And it's like, That's real. That's That's not That's not I don't want to belittle any B2B SaaS company that's doing, you know, MarTech or or sales optimization, but it's like, I don't know. That actually changed someone's life. It does. And and it And it shows you uh you know, I'm I'm fine to say that the way to build uh a great company and amass, uh you know, lots of talented people is to is to work on really hard, really impactful problems. And the closer you get to things that actually impact people's real life, like life or death, you can see that very clearly, right? That they create a sense of purpose and motivation um for your team that is, you know, just unrivaled. Uh and uh and and propels you forward in a really good way. I may agree. It's our go-to recruiting tactic, which is like, there will always be another SaaS company doing something relatively boring. But this has a chance to change the world. So, let's just jump on this ship. Awesome. So, look, let's let's go back a little bit. I want to uh just understand, you know, where you come from and and some of your early inspirations towards entrepreneurship. Yeah, so I mean, I'll never forget I was 13, and I went to a voice over IP conference. Which like, let's maybe unwind why I thought Yeah. I'd be at a voice over IP conference. Rather boring-sounding. Yeah, yeah. It was. But at the time, you know, this is the mid mid to late '90s. And like, that was the rage. It was like, "Wow, telephony is going to never be the same." Um but my uncle, who's who's based in New Jersey, was running a startup in VoIP. Um and it the conference happened to be in Atlanta. He knew I was into computers. Um I'd gotten a computer for my birthday that year. We'd gotten I think we had a 56K modem. And he was like, "You should come check this out." And I fell in love with technology. Mhm. Um Cisco had this massive booth that was on fire. Those booths are impressive. Yeah, it's like, "This is pretty cool." Um his his booth was much smaller, but also just like, "Wow, like I want to want to be him." I want to have, and now it sounds very silly, but at 13, it's like, "Very cool. Like, I want to have a booth at these conferences. Like, I want to be I want to be building something." And so, from there, it was really like, "How do I get into entrepreneurship?" And I was fortunate out of high school, before I even started at Tech, got hooked up with a a local entrepreneur who was also a Georgia Tech grad. Um and he was like, "You know, hey, you're you're 17, 18. What skills do you have?" I was like, "18, I have no skills, but I I want to work. Like, I know I want to do startups. I want to do technology companies." And he took a a rider on me and said, "Well, if you're willing to do anything, I'm sure I can find something for you to do." And this was a four-person startup, you know, in mobile payments and fintech. Um And I was really kind of inspired by the fact that in the course of 2 and 1/2 years, we went from four people to, you know, 150 people, and we wound up selling the company to Qualcomm. Yeah. Once you once you experience that, Once you see that, you're like, "Okay, this is, you know, I made the joke to my wife. Like, hey, if every 2 and 1/2 years, you just kind of go from four to 100 and sell your company, this seems like the best career. Why does anyone do anything but this?" Yeah. Um I think a lot of, you know, I see uh you know, work in hyper-growth startups as a as a form of a an adrenaline high-adrenaline sport, you know? Mhm. Uh and it really is when you see that experience that sort of growth. You you you don't get that anywhere else. And then you tend to either either hate it uh or you become addicted to it, you know, one of the two. Yeah, I mean, I'll never forget, it was, you know, the launch of the iPhone. And since we were mobile, this was a really big deal. Mobile apps were unclear if the iPhone was going to have an app store. Mhm. And burned an entire weekend by 72 hours straight building this native iPhone application for our company. And I can remember my at the time, my college friends being like, "What What are you doing? Like, what Why are you working? One, why are you working? Like, we're all at a party. And then two, like, why are you spending your entire weekend on this?" And I think there's just a difference in some people, at least like myself, like I'm just really passionate about creating things. Uh it's what I love to do. And so, for me, it's like, wasn't even a trade-off. It was like, "What an incredible opportunity. The iPhone is going to be huge. Like, I want to be on the ground level of it." Yeah. I get it. I should point out we actually we're sitting here in Flock Safety. We're in a in a in a warehouse. And so, uh we may hear some some warehouse sounds uh here and there. So, uh I'm definitely used to it. Forgive me. Um So, let's let's let's talk about uh uh Flock Safety. Uh when you started it, uh why, and and uh and, you know, what was uh the the vision that you set out at the early in the early days, the problem you saw? Is that the same problem that you guys are are now solving? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, out of all the companies that I've ever been a part of or started, Flock had a a big idea, you know, like a What is the next 7 years look like if we're successful? And it's always been very windy, like most companies, where you're pivoting in and out of like how do we go to market and what's that initial kind of phase and typically it's you know 6 to 12 months of customer discovery until you get your first paying customer. And at Flock you know the one of the reasons why we jumped so quickly out of you know out of the dozen ideas were we're looking at that this is the one to go pursue is in the first week of like just customer discovery just cold calling neighborhoods we had two paying customers. Oh wow. And I and I pre-product pre we we didn't have a website we didn't have a company name we didn't have a product name we had a point of view that hey we're going to solve crime in your neighborhood. Hey we have this belief that if we can remove infrastructure if we can make this really easy if this can be more of a service instead of a product right we want to do everything for you you just live in a happy safe neighborhood we'll we'll make sure you're safe. That resonated and so we had people like just wiring money over a ACH to my personal bank account. Um Wow. which I was which was funny That plays well on a venture deck. Yeah But it was like so fascinating because I I remember we were like wow this is really wild like how many businesses going so well these are strangers that we're just cold calling and they're giving us money without any information and and we had this big idea of like what if every single street had this evidence capturing device that had some notion of privacy some notion of ethics behind it as well. And it was about two months into two kind of our first two customers being up and running that we made our first arrest. And it was a DeKalb County it was Detective Yemmer I'll never forget him because he actually called me on my personal cell phone and was like hey I think I figured out your system and I think we got the guy and it was a it was a stolen bicycle and so if you ride bikes you know these actually aren't that cheap they're pretty expensive and uh stole out of a garage Detective Yemmer cleared the case made an arrest. Wow. And that's when I called Paige and Matt and was like hey you need to quit your jobs. Yeah. This is this is it like we're going like this is if if our crappy version one built on my dining room table Yeah. can make an arrest over a bicycle Yeah. imagine what it could do if we actually knew what we were doing. Yeah. Yeah absolutely. And so we had a very clear picture and it's kind of funny we we have a product going live in in Q4 that we've been working on for the last six months we just got the patent approved Mhm. that we filed three years ago. Yeah. So it's like the vision's been clear it's maybe taken us longer to execute on the entirety of it but it it's always been really clear. That actually is a good transition to my my next set of questions for you which is around the the physicality of the business is a is a product business one of the first is talk about how you guys actually built that first product that any of you have hardware experience how did you work through that and then in those early days of you know getting that product to the customer what was that like for you? Yeah so it's it's it's a good question because it kind of gets back to the reason why we like to call ourselves a crime fighting company is it's it's like well you could call us a hardware company because we do manufacture and design and ship a electronic device you can call us a software company because we write a lot of software you can call us a computer vision company because we do do that you can call us a field services company because we do actually we perform the installation and the maintenance of the product and it's like well we do all these things but the value to our customers is crime fighting. So we have a a mentor the guy who started a company called Pebble you know smart watch before there were smart watches and he made a very astute observation which is they he felt like they bit off too much. They they tried to own and innovate at every part of the stack. And his whole point is like figure out what you have to be the best in the world at and go off the shelf everywhere else. And so we looked at it and said okay we don't need to build the best image sensor you know Google Apple take a number of years. OmniVision a lot of people spend billions of dollars doing that we're not we don't need to be the best and we shouldn't try to be you know we don't need to compete with FLIR. So we said okay let's get them off the shelf there. Do we need to build the best in class system on module LTE module you know and it's like no actually like our value is in the aggregation and the packaging of all of these things right it's the it's the notion that there isn't one product you can go buy off the shelf so let's just put all those things together in a nice waterproof consumer friendly device and so from that vantage point really what we said our our strategic value to our customer is can we deliver this as a service and can we do it at a low enough bomb or bill of materials that makes the business viable and so we literally went to Alibaba and said okay what's the what's the closest thing that represents what we're trying to do it's it's a smartphone. So we ordered a bunch of Android devices that were rooted Yeah. and said okay we're going to do something that's not entirely safe we're going to tear these apart we're going to get a bigger lithium ion battery and we're going to solder it directly from the camera the smartphone to a you know five times bigger battery pack and then we're going to solder that directly to a a very large solar panel and we're going to put all of this in a waterproof box and drill some holes in it and if like that largely functions well we know that's going to be a you know $200 bomb shouldn't be perfectly in our price range and then like yeah we wouldn't obviously not want to ship thousands and thousands of rooted Yeah. cell phones but like in the MVP that's the core bomb right it's like yeah you need an LTE chip you need an image sensor you need an operating system that can largely run low power so that was literally if you looked at my dining room table and you can see all the scratch marks because I don't have a garage I live in I live in the city so we don't have garages there's drill marks still but like that's what we did you know we just soldered a bunch of stuff together and strapped it in and used a lot of glue and our current engineering team is not overly impressed but you know it worked. Do you still have some of those that's my my favorite part of the office tour is we have you know every iteration of the product from like the original camera that's this big and there's holes everywhere and like definitely not waterproof And you should keep that table too maybe bring in the office and have that be the the creative workshop table you know. I like that idea. And then what about on the logistics side I mean this is always you know a challenge you know we're building notionally a software company a crime fighting company and e-commerce company but there is this physicality to it that if it's not well managed can be a can become a real drag and I'm curious how you guys over the years have have dealt with that aspect of your business. So we we focused primarily on Atlanta out of the gate so we said hey look like we need to build a drive to the product until it's stable enough to not have to worry about it every day I mean to give you a sense of you know talk to you a lot of early stage founders and they get worried about the wrong things and I always use the example we used to have an alert on Slack when the camera worked. Mhm. Like we always just assumed on every two minutes it might be failing so actually every two minutes there would be a sign notification of like these cameras are working. Yeah yeah. And so we kept everything in Atlanta for probably six months nine months and then we made an interesting decision instead of trying to go market to market we said look like this needs to be a national product so we're going to go from does it work in Atlanta yes solve the country. Mhm. Um since we don't have market dynamics like an Instacart or an Uber where you need to match supply and demand we're like Yeah. has to just work. Um so we had to solve that problem really to cover the country. Mhm. Um and then now you know we're live in 750 cities across 40 states. Mhm. With a pretty small team of of three people that work in Atlanta that are overseeing all that field labor. Yeah. Wow that's impressive that's impressive. And and what brought you guys here to Saltbox what was that need? Yeah so you know we looked at it and said we're in a unique spot where we're not a consumer electronics company where where scale is millions of units. We're in a business where if we ship 10,000 units you know that's $50 million in revenue That's a that's a material we're a we're a material business and if we ship 50,000 units we're now you know a multi-billion dollar company and so Saltbox represented this like very special like opportunity to get the benefits of what a consumer electronics company would have which is like a a nice warehouse space shipping all the things you'd want but at a like price and value that allowed us to scale and move up and down kind of on a variable basis so for us we used to do all of our manufacturing in our corporate office and as you can imagine like it was fun because engineering was two feet from Almost too close though they almost too close and like we realized we would never get the professional standards we wanted and like what you could do in a warehouse you know what you could do in terms of final kidding and assembly and shipping because even though our office you know offered like hey we've got you know you can bring your trucks right up it's like well Yeah. can but it's still a quarter of a mile walk Right. and when you've got two or three pallets coming every week it gets kind of old Yeah totally. pretty quickly. But you know that's interesting I think in that in your case there were some operational challenges but you did have one thing which a lot of companies seek which is to have this kind of unification of of of the the the warehouse function and the office function if you will perhaps too much proximity and you know one of the things that I think is is is is is is helpful here though is it it's a it it's a it's of a a half step you know if you will versus like having to go out to you know the suburbs to some true warehouse where frankly your staff probably wouldn't you know wouldn't love you know and so there's some good good balance there. Well I think for us too you know we're we're still only 5 minutes away. Mhm. And so to your point you know we looked at all the options out there and I think for for our our VP of supply chain her her point of view was like I need dedicated space. Like it's great that we got creative but I've got three different rooms that are spread across this office and people still want to actually use this as an office so it's not always as clean as I want it and it was like we just we have to upgrade. Yeah. You know to a dedicated space. Totally. So let's talk a little about policing. I mean I think you know you guys are in the crime fighting business. Crime in in in in some regard is is a is is obviously a important topic right now and just more broadly policing and policing strategies. I wonder how you see yourself and your company in that in that context. Are you improving or worsening the the problem? Yeah. There's definitely a problem. I think the way we look at it and me in particular and I think that naturally cascades to the company is like we as individuals have a choice to either ignore it or decide to try to make it better. And so I think that there's a natural tendency to shy away from it or say hey you know even question should we sell should we sell our product to the police? You know and our perspective is like if you don't lean into the problem who else is going to fix it? Right? And like we're not saying we're going to carry this problem entirely on our shoulders but we think as technologists as creative individuals as press as marketing as ops like putting no matter your role in the company like we have a chance to actually fix it. Technology in and of itself is neither good or evil it is neutral and it is much more how is it implemented and how is it used and how is it built and I think you know one of our closest partners is a company called Axon they invented Taser and their whole mission is to eliminate the gun. And I'm like I I agree. Like yeah like that doesn't you do need a you you need it let's all agree you need a means to to you know to sustain an an individual. Does it need to be violent? No. That was the best available you know 30 years ago 40 years ago was a gun but a Taser is actually a much better product for that and they're trying to make it better and better and I think when I look at one of our kind of points of view is evidence is necessary to solve a crime. There are bad ways to obtain evidence and there are good ways. There are subjective ways and there are objective ways and what we try to really focus on is how do we provide objective evidence that doesn't look at sex skin tone it where you live any of those things that are clearly subjective measures. So let's eliminate those and just say like was this car stolen? It was. Go pull it over then. We don't know who's inside but let's go find out. And so for us we do try to have the conversation we try to acknowledge like we can inadvertently build bad technology so let's not. You know let's engage people like the EFF and the ACLU and hear their feedback. We might disagree but let's at least have the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. You you took Flock Safety through Y Combinator a few years ago. Y Combinator of course is a very popular startup accelerator in Silicon Valley. But ultimately made the decision to return back to Atlanta. And as I understand from our previous conversations there were some considerations whether or not that was or was not the right decision for the company. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you made the decision to come back and what it's been like for you running a full fledged you know venture back company outside of Silicon Valley. Yeah. It's it's definitely was a consideration. So when Matt and I decided to do Y Combinator and this is pre-COVID so you actually had to go in person. Demo day was just this weekend. Yeah so so demo day was this this this weekend and there was a friends of ours who were through the batch and never left Atlanta. Yeah. The whole thing was remote which was like oh sounds kind of nice. Not the same. Yeah definitely not the same. But so we moved and we said hey you know we should be we should be clear like that we should be ready to accept that we might want to move the company to San Francisco. And I'm sure there's a lot of pressure on you guys to do so. Immense amount of pressure. There were there were it's kind of interesting there are YC partners that will tell you every company should move to the Bay. And there are YC partners who are like it doesn't matter. And the same side on the venture which is when we were going through fundraising and still to this day we go to fundraising and there are some venture partners who say if you're not in the Bay Area you can't recruit the best talent you can't recruit recruit the right executives you're never going to scale your business. You can build a nice lifestyle business as they like to downplay which to me is silly because it's a those businesses tend to be profitable and make generational wealth. But hey you know let's just sell money. And so we looked at it and and we decided you know we could build and should build the company in Atlanta and the the could was important because we looked at it and said hey based on the skill sets we're going to need can we recruit the right people right? Can we actually build this company? We said look Georgia Tech has a great engineering program. UGA despite obviously being a Georgia Tech grad does have good talent as well. You've got SCAD on the design side you've got Emory on business it's like no Atlanta has an incredible talent pool. And then so we said okay we can build it and then the question is should we build it? And we looked at our mission around eliminating crime there was also sense of how does this feel if we leave because Matt and I are both from Atlanta Paige is from Atlanta our team is from Atlanta. Felt very inauthentic to then just say but we're going to go start it in San Francisco. Yeah. And now when I look at Atlanta it's our most populated city in terms of success and that feels good. Yeah. Yeah. No I hear you and you know I made the decision to move here from Silicon Valley in 2015 and you know in my own way came with a lot of a lot of scrutiny I wouldn't say scrutiny but certainly skepticism you know for that decision. But I think you and I have both proven them wrong at this point and I think so. about where we are. And I think you know I I was catching up with another fellow entrepreneur yesterday and they are post-seed thinking about a series A. And I did remind them though like you're not in San Francisco so you should assume you have a strike already when you go to fundraising process. Like assume every one of your metrics has to be better than your peer because you're not in San Francisco. And like as long as you know that that's fine because you know what also your cost of living is cheaper. Your ability to retain talent. Like people don't it's a very common to leave a company after 2 years 1 year in San Francisco. That's not normal in a place like Atlanta. So there are benefits but you have to kind of go into it with eyes open. Well then I also think though that that you know you can't underestimate the impact of of the pandemic in in this and you know the way the world works is things tend to gain momentum but then they tend to be kind of you know these you know kind of a seismic shifts that occur and this is one of them right? And I think one of the effects of that is that Silicon Valley will be different. You know the notion of remote work I think will persist in in in significant ways and even as as we start now to hire you know we're hiring folks remotely from from San Francisco. And it's like well if you if you want to stay there and waste your money that's up to you but life is pretty good here in Atlanta so you know uh But I think at the same time too what what I'm seeing is whether it's companies like Qualtrics you know or Mailchimp you've got these just like massive companies being built outside of the Bay Area that are wildly profitable. That are like multi-billion dollar companies and so I think every single one of those just increases that end of like could this be the next Mailchimp and I got the question this week of like what are your thoughts on Mailchimp? I'm like exactly what I want to do. Like that company went from no no one knew it to oh my gosh this is this massive company. And it was largely built in secret and that's the other benefit too I think of being not in the Bay Area is you can build a company quote unquote in secret. Absolutely. Worth noting that my former employer Palantir announced this week they moved to Denver Colorado so I think it's a smart move. There you go. Yeah. Great last question for you what's the future of of Flock? Yeah. I think uh I appreciate it was Mark Andreessen who said you know Mike Polgrean one of them said you the future is already here it's just unevenly distributed. And when I look across the cities we work in you go to a place like Cobb County and they've experienced a 60 plus percent reduction in crime since working with Flock. That's incredible. And it is insane because if from a quality of life perspective that's material. Like you feel it in a community and you feel it as a law enforcement agency because you can spend your time better ways. And so I look across the country and say okay there's 17,000 cities 700 of them are starting to see the results like Cobb County. How do we get to the next 16,000? Yeah. And that's what we're laser focused on. It is you know the product works the results are there we just got to keep scaling. We got to keep getting to more and more cities and word of mouth helps a lot and results help but that's really what we're focused on as a company is just covering the whole country. That's awesome. Well congratulations to you and glad to be a small part of it. Keep those keep those those those packages going out here and great to have you. Thank you. Thanks for the time. All right.