Full transcript
Welcome once again to Leato's Law.
Here's Steve Leato.
Had a lot of people ask me about this
one. Has to do with uh Ring cameras and
flock cameras and what happens if those
two get together. Uh stories all over
the internet. CNBC ran this story by
Eric Rosenbomb. Amazon Ring security
cameras moving deeper into law
enforcement with Flock Safety. Amazon's
Ring security cameras are moving deeper
into law enforcement work in a new deal
with Flock Safety that will allow
citizens who own Ring cameras to share
footage that can assist in crime
investigations, making the video
available to law enforcement that use
Flock software. Now, that right there
explains everything about the concept.
I've heard a lot of people say that what
this means is is that the police can
automatically just get your video
footage and do that through Flock off of
your Ring camera. And that's not what
that says. You'll notice it says that
you can assist. And the implication is
that they can ask you for it. But we'll
we'll get there. Hang on. This is the
second recent deal bringing the Amazon
Ring security tech into the law
enforcement market in new ways with Ring
also announcing a similar effort with
Axon Enterprise. Flock is a direct
competitor to Axon and Flock works with
an estimated 6,000 communities and 5,000
law enforcement agencies and sees a long
tale for the tech in the public safety
sector with an estimated 17,000 cities
across the US according to its CEO. Now,
the Ring community request feature will
be available for use with the Flock
operating system and Flock Nova
platforms that are contracted by local
public safety agencies. That'll allow
law enforcement officers to directly
request video evidence from Ring
cameras. But citizens will make the
decision whether to share the video. So,
they don't just get access to it. They
can't just take it. Police request will
go into what is called the Ring
Neighbors feed, which pings camera users
within an area identified as relevant,
and camera owners can then share the
video, which is kept in a secure
environment and can only be used for the
single crime investigation. Full
disclosure here, I have a Ring camera,
okay? And I will occasionally get
notices from the neighborhood and it'll
say things like, "We've lost our dog.
Can you please watch for our dog?" or or
this strange dog showed up in our yard
today. Does anybody know whose it is?
And I actually myself helped somebody
reunite with their dog because
they went into the Ring system and said
our dog got away and is missing. And
they posted a photograph of their dog
and I saw their dog the next day and I
contacted them through the system and
they recovered their dog. Okay. So there
is this community feature already in
place and what they're saying is they're
going to make that feature where people
can put information into it available to
the police so the police can put in a
request and say hey did anybody see
this? Now,
I know what a lot of you are thinking.
Steve, this is the first step. Once once
they get a tow hold, it ain't far for
them to say, "Okay, we just want access
to it." I understand that's the fear.
But also, you should keep in mind that
if something happened in front of your
house that was captured on your Ring
camera, the police can go get a warrant.
So, so this isn't
on its face as bad as people are making
it out to be. However, I'm going to tell
you right now, I don't like it. I don't
like it. But keep in mind what they're
saying is
law enforcement officers will be able to
request video from Ring cameras, but
citizens will make the decision whether
to share it. It'll still be up to you
whether you want to share it or not. So,
the guy in charge of Flock says, "For
me, it's clear and obvious we have a
crime problem in America. We're focused
on businesses and cities, and Ring is
definitely a leader in home security.
Being able to partner with them will
lead to much safer communities, and
doing it in a way that allows the public
to opt in," he said, adding that it was
Ring that first reached out to Flock
about a potential deal. And so,
understand something. If a crime
happened directly in front of my camera
and my camera caught it and the police
say, "Steve, can we see it?" Yeah, you
can see it. Absolutely. However,
the police show up one day and go, "Hey,
you know, we're just kind of thinking
that maybe some bad stuff's happening
around here. Can we go fishing through
your videos?"
No. No.
So, the law enforcement technology
market and surveillance cameras in
particular are by their nature
controversial with concerns about
privacy, racial profiling, use of
surveillance information for unapproved
purposes and weak security protocols.
This is not the first attempt by Ring to
more broadly distribute video footage. A
previous incarnation of this type of
technology, which was Ring request for
assistance, was shut down in 2024.
According to Consumer Reports, that tool
is used by at least 2500 police
agencies. Ring has also worked directly
with law enforcement in the past to
distribute cameras in communities. The
guy from Flock said there's a difference
between the previous program and the new
community request feature. He said that
previous one was inside the Ring Data
app and there was no chain of custody.
In this case, while the request goes out
in the Ring app, any footage shared by
users goes into the Flock platform which
is fully secure. He doesn't understand.
That's not how we hear that. This is
what we do every day for business and
municipalities. In addition to public
agency work, Flock has contracts with an
estimated 1,000 private sector
organizations for its technology. Now,
Ring does not release precise data on
the number of cameras in use. Uh the guy
from Flock said it is a major advantage
to law enforcement to have this option
in crime investigations and law agencies
have been asking for it given the fact
that there can be tens of thousands of
Ring cameras in communities across the
country. Now Ring has never officially
come out with numbers, but a report from
Politico two years ago estimated that 10
million Americans have Ring cameras for
their homes. Amazon declined to provide
data on ring cameras in circulation or
any comment on the recent law
enforcement market deals. The guy from
Flock says he sees the development as a
better option for both the police and
the public compared to the current way
crime work is conducted. It's about
helping law enforcement be more
efficient and conduct faster
investigations. And for citizens, he
said, if there's a shooting in my
neighborhood today and police go
doortodoor asking if you have camera
footage, it can create an environment
where it is hard to say no.
This is an environment where people have
control. They don't have to participate
any specific request. That level of
control didn't exist beforehand. The
alternative is a cop shows up at your
front door and people feel quite
compelled. And now law enforcement has a
more efficient way and we as citizens
are able to say no, we don't want to
help for whatever reason. So the guy
from Flock
is saying that you have the right to say
no, we don't want to help for whatever
reason.
And so assuming it stays that way is
isn't again like I said as bad as some
people are making it out to be. So again
he goes on to say the partnership has no
direct revenue impact on flock safety
saying it will be offered for free to
every law enforcement customer. If we
achieve the mission of helping
communities we'll find ways to make
money. We won't monetize this
partnership but we believe it will drive
adoption of core products. uh it'll be
turned on for free for every customer
and I think all of them will use it. So
he's basically saying it's going to add
a lot of value to our business. It's
what he's saying. Flock safety currently
supports law enforcement making close to
1 million arrests a year and this will
help that number go up. According to
Flock, an exact date for the roll out on
the Flock platform is not set, but Flock
safety says it is imminent. Um, now it's
sure to attract scrutiny. In addition to
controversies involving Ring, including
an FTC settlement over allegations of
bad security, communities across the US
continue to debate the use of technology
like flocks, with some contracts being
cancelled amid public debate even as the
business is growing. So,
it's one of those things and I I see the
argument on both sides. Like I said,
these cameras are everywhere now.
Everywhere. Flock cameras, Ring cameras,
Google Nest cameras, uh, Barn Owl
cameras, Voser camera, camera, camera,
camera, everywhere. Cameras everywhere.
And it's hard to go any place without
appearing on a camera someplace, right?
Like go to the store, you're on a
camera. And so I don't like being
surveiled all the time, but sometimes
you can't avoid it. I don't mind that
there's cameras in the bank. Doesn't
bother me at all. Okay. I I think the
cameras there make me safer. However, if
I'm driving down the street, the fact
that there's cameras photographing my
car, photographing my license plate, and
recording what type of car it is, which
way I'm going, and where I'm going, what
time it is, and all that, that bothers
me. That bothers me. My tax dollars have
been turned on me to surveil me. That
that bothers me. But when it comes to
the cameras that private individuals
have, we should have complete control
over them and who uses the stuff if
other than us. And I'm going tell you
right now, and I'm going make a solemn
promise to you because a lot of people
right now are upset with me for not just
coming out and condemning this 100%. The
reason I'm not is what they're saying is
that they can ask you through the
platform, can we see the footage?
They're going to ask. You've got the
right to say no for whatever reason.
Assuming that stays true,
I don't have a problem with it because
they could ask otherwise. They can come
up and knock on your door. Now, is it
possible they'll get more requests
because they can do it so easily?
Possibly. But a police officer could
walk down the street and just go up and
knock on every single door. Excuse me,
is that a Ring camera? Do you know if it
caught anything on Thursday night? Can
we see it? And and would you rather the
cop on your front porch knocking on your
door or get the message that you can
just decline and say, "No, no, thank
you. Don't want to share it for whatever
reason." But my solemn promise to you is
and and I and and I'm I'm going to ask
my audience to police this for me, to
watch this for me. If it ever comes out
that this goes even one step further,
that is where we the consumers lose
control of our ring camera footage. I
will
and I own a really big sledgehammer. I
own the heaviest sledgehammer money can
buy at a Home Depot.
I'll tell the story of why I own it if I
ever shoot this video. And I shot a
video a while back about how to repair a
Fitbit, one of those exercise watches
when the screen goes bad because you
can't. And I took it out and I smashed
it with a rock. And and some people
thought that was funny and some people
were upset that that wasn't an actual
fix. And I said, "Well, there is no
actual fix. That's the point. However, I
will remove my Ring camera and I will
place it on the same work surface or
similar
that I put the Fitbit and using that big
sledgehammer show you what I think of
the idea of my own camera turning on me.
So again,
what they're promising right now isn't
that big of a deal in the sense that
they're saying Ring is simply going to
cooperate with Flock so the police
agencies can ask can we see your footage
and you have the right to say no for
whatever reason. That's what the guy's
saying. You can just say no. No.
Understand? They can get a warrant. But
the point simply is they can ask.
You can say no. If it ever escalates
beyond that, please let me know and I
will gladly take down my Ring camera and
demonstrate what should be done to it if
it has in fact turned on its owner
because that's what that would be. So
don't don't get me wrong here. I
understand the concern, but what they're
saying right now
isn't that bad
except that it could be the first step
down the long road of big brother. So
there you go. That's from CNBC. Eric
Rosenbomb wrote it. Amazon Ring security
cameras moving deeper into law
enforcement with lock safety and Axon.
So questions or comments, put them
below. Talk to you later. Bye-bye.
Thank you for watching Leato's Law.
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