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Flock cameras help solve crimes. But who’s watching the watchers?

InvestigateTV5.3K viewsMay 18, 202610:111,812 words
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Flock safety cameras continue to pop up around town to ensure that car thieves and violent criminals have almost no chance to escape. They've been helping catch suspects quickly. We're just trying to keep you safe. Flock cameras have revolutionized local law enforcement. The system has helped them arrest violent offenders and recover stolen cars. [music] they say is priceless. Just helped them get a dangerous man off the street. They tracked his car down using Flock cameras. The cameras take a picture of every car that drives by. The cameras are designed to catch criminals, but they also create a searchable database of every car that passes. All day is just reading tags. They're continuously recording. It's just a tool to help us catch criminals. We're going to catch everyone. We have cameras everywhere in that town. You can't get a breath of fresh air in or out without us knowing. Chrissana Elzer learned the power of Flock first hand. You were in town from 11:52 until 12:09, exactly. Like I said, nothing gets in or out of the town without us knowing. When a Colorado police officer showed up at her door holding Flock snapshots of her truck. And here's when you left. At 12:09, that's when you left town. To get No, to stop at Ridge Trail. Wait a minute. And take a package. Well, there's no shushing. I don't need to be Yes, I need you to know where this is. The first thing he pulled out on the body cam is that Flock picture, the clear photograph of your car. But here's your vehicle in the neighborhood many, many times, apparently casing houses cuz you just can't drive through for work or visit other businesses. You can only be casing houses. It is her. It is 100%. It is locked in. There is zero doubt. I wouldn't have come here unless I was 100% sure. 100%. It is certain. It is on video. You're obviously welcome to go to court. Chrissana was charged with stealing a package, but it wasn't her. The porch pirate was somebody else. Multiple times you tried to show him your video evidence, he didn't want to [music] see it. Oh, even when I called him back, he said, "That's not my job." You looked at the time of a crime, you saw my vehicle entering in the Flock camera. No, no, what I did was I did an investigation. You called my wife a liar, you threatened to arrest us back. I have video evidence. I don't know what you want me to say. The charges were dropped after Crisanna spent weeks [music] trying to get the police chief to look at her evidence. Time-stamped video from her truck and a neighbor's doorbell camera showing she wasn't at the scene of the crime. What does it say about where we are that you feel you have to have more cameras than the police have in order to make sure you can prove yourself innocent? It sounds like it flipped the script to you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Without a Flock camera, that detective would not have been at her door. By his own admission, he pulled out the Flock picture of her car. Do you want to apologize to Crisanna Elzer for what happened to her? For I I don't think that I have to apologize for He wasn't charged with a crime, he wasn't I mean, other than being reprimanded for his attitude. Sure. No, but I would tell you that like, should I apologize for somebody misusing a tool? I don't think so. Flock Safety Chief Communications Officer Josh Thomas. Who's watching the watchers in these cases? Well, uh the city council, the city owns the data, so city council would have the appropriate responsibility in that case. Our our point of view has always been that um it is not Flock's job to police the way police do their work. Flock license plate readers don't just scan tags looking for a stolen cars or vehicles on a hot list. The cameras take a photo of every car that passes, stamped with the precise time and location. The more cameras you pass, the clearer the picture of your movements. All of that data is saved in a database for 30 days, shared with connected police departments allowing the government to go back in time to see where your car was and when. No warrant required whether you're suspected of a crime or not. Why not just do hot list alerts? It's because the investigative value here is is immense. Otherwise, you're going back to the old way of policing which is an eyewitness saw something. They're going to call in and report it and a police officer has to go stop every yellow Jeep that looked like that or every person who's described a certain way. Instead with an LPR, you can actually find the objective data you need. It's the new way of policing which is precise. Instead of dragnet, it actually becomes precision policing. So I would challenge back that same notion and say hot listing is not the way to go. Because police departments not only save typically 30 days of every vehicle that passes every one of their cameras, investigators also have access to the same data from every department or private business that shares cameras with them. [music] We're well over a thousand cameras that we have access to right now. Flock says 6,000 local governments use its cameras many sharing data with each other. Flock becomes more powerful, not just more profitable, the more agencies who are part of the network. That's their entire business model. That's what why they're worth seven and a half billion dollars. The whole idea is crowdsourcing, right? Yes, but it's crowdsourcing with agencies rather than the crowd and the crowd is actually being surveilled by the agencies who are then crowdsourcing with each other. Yeah, the crowd's the product. We are the product. Jason Huynh Yar lives in Dunwoody, Georgia. The Atlanta suburb was an early Flock customer with cameras all over town. Dunwoody shares with over a thousand external agencies all of our data. So he filed records requests with the city for Flock's audit logs. Despite 30 records requests, you don't know who's watching you and your family in Dunwoody in other agencies and what they're looking for. Correct. Every time somebody logs in and tries to perform a search in Flock, it is cataloged. And that's there in an audit log that's immutable. So, you there's public accountability on this. They gave you an estimate of over a half million dollars for you as a resident of Dunwoody to see records of the system they're using to surveil you. Yes. Yes. Just to see just to see who is looking at our data. Who monitors the camera footage? Hunyadi went to city council with the limited Flock audit records Dunwoody gave him. And there's two agencies that are on there that are literally labeled delete and do not use. Nobody from Flock Safety is accessing or monitoring your footage. Once again, I have evidence of Flock employees looking at parks, schools, playgrounds. The audit logs also showed Flock executives watching private cameras inside the city's Jewish Community Center, which the mayor confirmed. Members of the Flock sales team were using it as a demonstration. Why didn't Flock find those vulnerabilities? Why did it take a safety sergeant? We actually can't talk about the JCC by name. So, we can talk about something else there. Well, why can't you talk about the JCC? Because we work with their team and we we're not going to A Flock PR person stopped our interview twice when we tried to ask about Flock employees viewing cameras inside the Jewish Community Center. Did the people in those videos get permission to be part of a demo? We're not going to answer questions about JCC. Not answer questions about JCC. But any partnership I have to ask the question. However, you guys want to answer it. If you want to say you can't answer it, you can't answer it. That's fine. But I have to ask the question. I can't It's not a PR video. This isn't like a promotional video. It's a It's a I mean, this is it's pretty clear what I was It's not a PR video. We're good though. I think that people from the community are raising appropriate concerns about who has access to what cameras. I I it's appropriate to ask those questions. I think it's appropriate for us to also say that we had permission from the cities to demonstrate how these cameras work. I'm here to express my support for Flock. At Dunwoody City Council, one resident spoke up in favor of renewing the Flock contract. I believe they're practical and effective tool to help keep our neighborhood safe. Did you know that family members of Flock employees were going to city council meetings speaking positively about the product without disclosing that their family member makes their living off of Flock? I did not know that, no. The speaker did not disclose that his son works for Flock as the senior director of growth. These cameras assist law enforcement. Should employees family members disclose that their son makes their entire living off of Flock when speaking positively to a government body about a contract that's pending with your company? I think that's a fair request. Dunwoody ultimately voted to renew its Flock contract, but with new restrictions on the company. So, we will no longer be a demonstration location for Flock. That keeps them out of places they should not be. You told me you weren't in the town of Dunmar. I have you roughly roughly 20 times this month alone. Kristina Elzer lives just yards from the same Flock camera used to falsely accuse her of a crime. It's hard to drive that way and then look up and see it pointed right at you and and wondering, did you put my license plate in a system and now it's tinging at you every time [music] it reads it and now you're just kind of watching me or taking note because you ended up being embarrassed you were wrong. Every technology comes with a cost. [music] In your view, the benefits outweigh those costs. There's no question about it. I think that crime is too easy to go unsolved today. Horrible violent crimes. And I think that when cities remove technology, [music] they remove tools from the ability to solve those crimes, it actually has a uh a negative cycle that impacts those cities. [music] Watching everyone to find the criminals among us, but who is watching the watchers? [music]