Full transcript
We want law enforcement to
have all the tools they
need to do their jobs, but
those tools need to remain
within the confines of the
Constitution and the
Fourth Amendment. I think
we all agree with that.
That's Knox County,
Tennessee, Mayor Glenn
Jacobs, and he was here
right on Bianca across the
nation recently explaining
his decision to pause the
flock cameras. Here's what
they look like. They're
used by law enforcement,
reportedly investigating
crimes, but they've
stirred up some massive
controversy right now in
America. Now, supporters
say the cameras can find
stolen cars and located
wanted individuals. But
critics are saying flock
cameras create a web of
mass surveillance that
captures law abiding
citizens without a warrant.
Let's get into it. Senior
judicial analyst Judge
Andrew Napolitano joining
us right now. And John
Shell, retired NYPD chief
of department. I'm
interested to see if you
guys agree or disagree,
but I'm going to start
with you, judge. Are these
cameras illegal or are
they violating a right to
privacy that every
American has a right to
expect? Well, they're not
illegal because they've
been lawfully purchased,
but they were purchased by
police departments. No
criticism of the NYPD. And
the chief and I are long
time friends, but they
were purchased by police
departments, not by
legislative bodies, which
have to answer to the
people. So they are legal
but profoundly
unconstitutional. They
institutionalize the
systematic surveillance of
everyone innocent and
non-innocent those with no
suspicion whatsoever.
That's not what the Fourth
Amendment was written to
facilitate. That's what
the Fourth Amendment was
written to prevent. It's
one thing for a police
officer to see somebody
run through a red light,
or to see a bad guy run
out of a bank. It's quite
another thing for a camera
to capture every human
being that drives on the
road or walks past the
bank. Fourth amendment was
written to prevent these
cameras. Great, great,
great tee up here to John.
So these cameras, John,
are in every state but
Alaska. And you know, you
just heard the judge
saying highly
unconstitutional in Texas.
There is a Congressman,
Keith Self, introducing a
bill that would require
law enforcement to get a
warrant before even
accessing system on the
data. Where do you fall on
these cameras? Well, I was
one of the first
recipients of the license
in 2007 and NYPD and to
the judges point, we
control the information.
We control how we did it,
how we used excuse me. And
now we're in a place where
the information is so
valuable in terms of
catching the bad guy and
what the judge is talking
about. But the information
has to be inside your own
cloud. And if you're going
to use it for any purpose,
there should be some sort
of subpoena power to make
sure you audits are
properly done to be able
to freelance and pick
information you want in
nefarious ways is totally
out of bounds and against
the Fourth Amendment. But
the internal audit should
be done properly, and we
need judges for this. I do
want to add Savannah,
Georgia Police Department
fired six employees, four
officers for conducting
searches unrelated to law
enforcement activity. I
think is this is the
concern of where it may go.
So we'll watch it all.
Judge, great to have you,
John. Always a pleasure.
And I know a lot of people
do not want to be
surveilled when they're
driving down the street,
so this will be certainly